Comment on these lineups

[KcP.šìç[k]™]

me n my pals playing a tourney this sat, we come up with some drafts. comment them so we can improve. however we will decide what draft to use on that day.

1st draft:
ShadowFiend
Warlock
Lich
Pugna
Loa

2nd draft:
ShadowFiend
Prophet
Qop
Rk
Vs

3rd draft:
Lone Druid
QoP
Lich
Necrolyte
Earthshaker

[StripperA]

if u havent test them out, test them out asap to see which one works best..thats all dismissed lol

[charaeb]

really drafting totally depends on opponentdraft unless u have a real strat like aoe/pure dmg/early push/ganking heros and so on. i woudnt draft necrolyte if the opponents are all paper and no tanking heros like rk lone druid alchemist or even viper for the case and so on. i see u really favour lich but imo zeus>lich. i mean its up to u but u must have a strat before u draft. u cant make pre-made drafts and juz use them cuz in compys/matches, the situation is different. looking at ur drafts.. i think i wuld combine them to qop>warlock>rk>es>prophet

qop es lanes top if ur sentinel, rk prophet bot while warlock solos mid. startegy is that once es successfullystun traps top lane, prophet can always tele over to help. of course gd coordination is impt. rk will juz be farming his life away. prefably let rk bkb lock ref and qop skadi before a major push to the rax. allowing a 4man push on the lvl 1/2 towers first to let the qop/lock/rk farm up their items first. prophet will juz be trying his best to get dmg items and also guinsoo. es definately needs a dagger and hopefully able to farm guinoo for another hex. this strategy is kinda balance and ready to take on any draft. except its only weakness is that it cant def a earlypush REALLY well. u have echo + wave + infernal though.. so it depends. pretty balanced draft i must say. aoe/catchers/dmgdealers/stuns all present :) hope i've been of some help.

p.s usually i dun do thisbut im really bored today T_T

[poorcloud]

You gotta try it out in some matches... No matter how good a lineup seems on paper, it needs to be tried and tested for u to say it works!!

[Ironfisto]

...as the saying goes, plan swee swee but in the end still cock up.

[TheSentinel]

e first one suck. whole draft no stoppers no catchers. blink dagger will counter the whole draft. second one are late gamers but very weak in aoe. but can play it as catching game which will be very effective with furion teleporting. e third one no runners. total stay lane draft. which is very vulnerable to backstabs. will only do well in 5v5 clashes.

[KcP.šìç[k]™]

lol tested those, but not tested on different drafts, so u cnat really see the difference unless u will try every draft on a particular draft(opponent). but its impossible to do in pub.

[Ironfisto]

Try doing a thought experiment, it will help.

[kimpi]

drafting don affect very much... wad matters is tat ur personal skills and ganking.... ur experience in tactical

[charaeb]

zzz i type so much no use :((

[yurec]

Yes, what you type is pretty thoughts nia.

QUOTE"theoretically is the most abused english word" UNQUOTE

[Kelvinklein]

zzz i type so much no use :((

LOL yea...i skiped ur part...2 wordy..sori 2 sae dat

but IMO de 2nd draft looks pretty all-rounded....

[StripperA]

theory is theory nia..must play, teamwork most impt

[poorcloud]

Try getting a balance of AOE dmg and late gamers..

[StripperA]

u got phd in dota theory if ur teamwork not good u also can throw it away lol

[<3dwarf]

draft sk and tormented soul

[StripperA]

draft techies and lycanthrope

[d0minic]

really drafting totally depends on opponentdraft unless u have a real strat like aoe/pure dmg/early push/ganking heros and so on. i woudnt draft necrolyte if the opponents are all paper and no tanking heros like rk lone druid alchemist or even viper for the case and so on. i see u really favour lich but imo zeus>lich. i mean its up to u but u must have a strat before u draft. u cant make pre-made drafts and juz use them cuz in compys/matches, the situation is different. looking at ur drafts.. i think i wuld combine them to qop>warlock>rk>es>prophet

qop es lanes top if ur sentinel, rk prophet bot while warlock solos mid. startegy is that once es successfullystun traps top lane, prophet can always tele over to help. of course gd coordination is impt. rk will juz be farming his life away. prefably let rk bkb lock ref and qop skadi before a major push to the rax. allowing a 4man push on the lvl 1/2 towers first to let the qop/lock/rk farm up their items first. prophet will juz be trying his best to get dmg items and also guinsoo. es definately needs a dagger and hopefully able to farm guinoo for another hex. this strategy is kinda balance and ready to take on any draft. except its only weakness is that it cant def a earlypush REALLY well. u have echo + wave + infernal though.. so it depends. pretty balanced draft i must say. aoe/catchers/dmgdealers/stuns all present :) hope i've been of some help.

p.s usually i dun do thisbut im really bored today T_T


lich is good lor. because, no matter how u blink u still eat chain frost

[d0minic]

dude, u dun write draft because it just sounds nice and u think how powerful it gets. like u are thinking of the major situation . where ur sf blinks in ulti and lich cf and such. u get what i mean ?

ur first draft already no catcher meaning, if other team has catcher. early game will be hell like for u.

[lawllerskate™]

u got phd in dota theory if ur teamwork not good u also can throw it away lol
AGREE^^!! :bananahuge:

[d0minic]

AGREE^^!! :bananahuge:


lol i wanna smack that banana. like very guai lan.

[StripperA]

lolololol draft enigma,pudge,tidehunter,alchemist and magnataur..Sure opponent scared

[frost02]

dota is a team game so i think no matter how strong or how good u think the heroes u choose are if u cant play as a team then i think it wudnt matter.. right?

[<3dwarf]

draft axe, enigma, magnataur, all suck u in

[d0minic]

dota is a team game so i think no matter how strong or how good u think the heroes u choose are if u cant play as a team then i think it wudnt matter.. right?


seriously, if u anyhow draft. it really depends on each individual skills. like lets say if i draft qop.
ur skadi come outs in 50++ mins. isnt that so wasted

and most importantly team work and early game laning. it all are just factors to ur end game.

[<3dwarf]

yeah nvm if you don't own, just be useful ;)

[Ironfisto]

Just do a simple thought experiment la.
You choose a line-up then you think how the enemy will react/counter.
Then you find a way to counter their counter.
Then repeat again and again, action>>reaction>>action>>reaction>>action...

They say that if you practice throwing a basketball into the net 50 times, it is as good as 'imagining' yourself throwing a basketball into the net 50 times in your mind. Since you can't emulate a real game, the best is to think it through in your mind.
(Since you assume playing against pubs is not a 'real game')

[genyaarikado123]

these lineups will fail anytime if u use them. on paper nothing works.

[Ironfisto]

these lineups will fail anytime if u use them. on paper nothing works.

Are you trying to imply all the physics and mathematical laws untrue?
They originate from theoretical papers you know...

[genyaarikado123]

dude we r talking about dota, not maths or physics

[KcP.šìç[k]™]

lol dont worry about team work -.- its just a rough one, either of the draft's hero (one or two) will change according to opponent's draft, eg if hero kanna taken den choose a sub hero in either better or same

[<3dwarf]

dude we r talking about dota, not maths or physics

our lives are destined by maths and physics

[Reya]

u got phd in dota theory if ur teamwork not good u also can throw it away lol

i read untill this i dont want read liao.
agree with above.

[xXSupanoobXx]

Imo some of these drafts suck... To a certain extent.

For the first one Fiend is ok but need to last hit deny alot and very paper. LoA is OK but I don't really like him. Pugna good against those who need alot of mana, but can die in a few seconds. Warlock ok but Lich ulti everybody blink different direction no more ulti ler. And anyway... Dagger counters all.

Second: Shadowfiend Prophet have too little HP. QoP RK VS ok but HP not say very high also. So pure AoE b4 everyone gets BKB owns them. Well unless they get BKB first... But overall this lineup is OKOK to me.

Third: No comments. Just average.

[KcP.šìç[k]™]

vs can swap those with bkb. i prefer draft 2. rk vs prophet very effective. 1st stun. tele comes, 2nd stun. sprout. haven die, stun again

[darkillidan]

yes yes, everyone has their own point, no one can say it is totally wrong. however, you said that teamwork is the most important factor, do you think the top clans did not sit down there and think of strats? yes paper work may not be working when it comes to practical, but dota strategies fundamentals on paper work and brain storming.

face to face drafting comes from experiences, where the different strategies they've came out will work best on the opponent, which is from brain storming. how do you think the new strategies come out from? suddenly i feel like drafting bristle back, i think it is fun. NO! because they've thought of its potential, and thus used it. when it owns, others see it, and they use it when it is necessary. yes it's true that paper work is nothing without teamwork, but it is also true that teamwork is useless if the draft sucks. any decent players can win the top clans if their draft is shit.

theres a chinese saying the sea can transport a boat, it can also sunk a boat.

[d0minic]

yes yes, everyone has their own point, no one can say it is totally wrong. however, you said that teamwork is the most important factor, do you think the top clans did not sit down there and think of strats? yes paper work may not be working when it comes to practical, but dota strategies fundamentals on paper work and brain storming.

face to face drafting comes from experiences, where the different strategies they've came out will work best on the opponent, which is from brain storming. how do you think the new strategies come out from? suddenly i feel like drafting bristle back, i think it is fun. NO! because they've thought of its potential, and thus used it. when it owns, others see it, and they use it when it is necessary. yes it's true that paper work is nothing without teamwork, but it is also true that teamwork is useless if the draft sucks. any decent players can win the top clans if their draft is shit.

theres a chinese saying the sea can transport a boat, it can also sunk a boat.


lol ur point about top teams sitting down and discuss strat is partially right. they really do " eh i want play this hero because it can own" . if not why, zenith ever came out this strat suggested by musica and was turned down immediately during RGN 3 by lux. read one of the post by Ant.

Musica was about to cry when LuX turned down his suggestion.

Musica suggestion was: Enchantress, Ogre Magi, Keeper of the Light , Juggernault and Enigma

[d0minic]

Imo some of these drafts suck... To a certain extent.

For the first one Fiend is ok but need to last hit deny alot and very paper. LoA is OK but I don't really like him. Pugna good against those who need alot of mana, but can die in a few seconds. Warlock ok but Lich ulti everybody blink different direction no more ulti ler. And anyway... Dagger counters all.

Second: Shadowfiend Prophet have too little HP. QoP RK VS ok but HP not say very high also. So pure AoE b4 everyone gets BKB owns them. Well unless they get BKB first... But overall this lineup is OKOK to me.

Third: No comments. Just average.

u dun say this suck that suck just because of ur own personal preference. u sure opponent team gonna buy blink ? okay even if they do . so what ? pugna ward can counter many AoE . LoA need not be a supporter, he can be a end gamer. Check out one of the replays of Team Lz versus Team Evo during WCG. Look at the loa, look how good his loa is. pls , if u are just based on ur own playing style and own preference. i suggest u do not comment

[genyaarikado123]

the bottomline is these paper stuff aint gonna work.
the heroes u choose r those tat can counter enemy heroes or a team of heroes with a combined strategy to counter enemy tactics. it all dpends on who enemy use.

[darkillidan]

dude, which strategies doesnt start from paper/brainstorm/experiences? which top 3 of any competition doesnt have a strategy. i really love those that comments without any experiences. yes, it is true that paperwork may not work in practical. BUT FFS I MUST EMPHASIZE THIS AGAIN : ALL STRATEGIES BEGIN FROM PAPERWORK/BRAINSTORMING. if theres no paperwork, there wont be strategy like enigma sf/sk. correct me if i'm wrong.

[KcP.šìç[k]™]

Musica was about to cry when LuX turned down his suggestion.

Musica suggestion was: Enchantress, Ogre Magi, Keeper of the Light , Juggernault and Enigma

i still saw the replay of them using this draft. ant was orge, ice was kotl, tofu jug, musica enchant.lux=enig cant remember who were they fighting.

[<3dwarf]

against a sg team, forget which 1

[StripperA]

i think eternity

[genyaarikado123]

paperwork down here refers to drafting heroes on paper, like wat the starter of this thread did. it has got nothing to do with strategies. he came up with a few drafts and asked ppl to comment.
so the thing is there is nuthing to comment if that is wat u r refering to, because like i said paper theory will not work in games.
strategies coming from paper is not the main topic.

[StripperA]

i write on paper before i draft and i used them all later for paper aeroplane..

[darkillidan]

paperwork down here refers to drafting heroes on paper, like wat the starter of this thread did. it has got nothing to do with strategies. he came up with a few drafts and asked ppl to comment.
so the thing is there is nuthing to comment if that is wat u r refering to, because like i said paper theory will not work in games.
strategies coming from paper is not the main topic.

LoL you mean you drafts hero without using your experience/past strategies/new strategies? IF im not wrong, that dude THINK and RE-THINK before writing down the heroes, because most drafters have already been so used to drafting that they had so many combinations in their brain already, isnt it like a book of different strategies? i think the main starter is just new, if not he wont even need to ask.

he SPECIFICALLY asked for comments, and you're saying paper work is useless. yes i get what you mean by teamwork/gameplay stuffs. besides that, he still need to learn what are the heroes should be used, what are the heroes less important in most strat isnt it? i disagrees with what you said paper work is useless. it may not be very important for experienced drafter, but i think it is quite necessary for the new guys who wants to draft.

you need to know the theories (like lower ground has % of misses to higher ground) before you start the practicals.

tell me if i'm wrong in anyway

[<3dwarf]

i write on paper before i draft and i used them all later for paper aeroplane..

i draft viper and i fold paper bird

[StripperA]

lol how u rpg with the paper bird?

[genyaarikado123]

i dun get wat u mean from ur english dark, but did u jus say tat the topic starter is a noob?

bravo!

[ngtes]

any draft, with good palyers can play one.
u jus nid teamwork and experience playing wit ur team
pudge loa doom thd kotl also can play ^^.

[ngtes]

pudge pudge pudge pudge ftw

[d0minic]

when u are the drafter. its like more or less a natural thing when u think which hero to draft will work in the strategy. i mean is like u think about this hero , its like ur brain straight away form out lots of strategy patterns liao then u noe what to draft already.

[StripperA]

pudge pudge pudge pudge ftw

can kill pudge when he kena shadow striked hahahaha

[ngtes]

pudge is king

[StripperA]

he's a hooker