Phantom Lancer - Is he a mvp hero?

[DOTASG_PAPA]

I have not seen many team using Phantom Lancer in highly competitive game. I keep thinking, "WHY".

Well, I have been playing Phantom Lancer from the day Icefrog's team have add this hero into DotA.

Why I love this hero is because this hero if play properly he almost never die and further more if you give him enough time to farm he can be a great ending hero. I have played so much till I am sicked of it. Unless I really wanted very much to win, if not I will not use it in any casual or competitive game.

Phantom Lancer might not be the swiss army knife compare to other heroes that you are looking for as he does not have great disabling spell and he cannot be a tank cos his HP is very low especially at the start. Then, what good is a he? Well, he can be a great lane pusher and game ender and he do not even need to have the whole team worrying about him being ganged and needing someone to save him. Thus, no fear and no worries of him not being around when the rest of the team is in action. If your team strategy allows him to not be around, then you will be surprised how he much he can contribute to win the game when he join back into the battle rank.

The secret of building a good Lancer which can help you team to walk on the road of victory is that you try not to let your Lancer die at any cost. These are the points to take note.

1) Avoid any kind of engagement when you are alone, or even when in situation that there are friend's hero nearby to help you. DO NOT ENGAGE!!

2) Keep your windwalking spell ready at all times. Only use it to escape tight situation.

3) Farm all kind of creeps you can find in the map. Farm all creeps that no one is guarding.

There are a few item buying order, depending on your preference.
Starting Items: Boots, Bracer, PowerThread(after getting gloves),
Power Items:

Sange and Yasha, Catalyst, Burize
Catalyst, Burize, Butterfly


Spell order:
DoppleWalk
Juxtapose
DoppleWalk
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
(Max out Juxtapose)
(Max out Stats)
.
.
.
(Max Out Spirit Lance)
Ownage.

Well, this version of Phantom Lancer is slightly boring as there is not much action (due to being the scardy cat in the team) but you will sure live another day to tell how you team grab a smashing victory.

Still, at the end of the day, this is how I play my Phantom Lancer. So there must be many other ways to build a ass kicking Phantom Lancer, do kindly share your knowledge with fellow Dota gamers here.

[Hebe]

Hebe's Phantom Lancer Build:

Spell Order:

DoppleWalk
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Juxtapose
Spirit Lance
Phantom Edge
Spirit Lance
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
(Max Out States)
LvL 16:[Got Ulti Pump Ulti]
LvL 23: (Max Out DoppleWalk)

Items Build:
Ring, Flask
2 Bracers
Boot Of Speed
S&Y
Butterfly
Radiance..etc

[ShadowZ]

i prefer throwing lance at early game ^^ cuz at least u have some nuke to deals wif mages. on top of that , ur image sux at early when tehy have no damage

[DOTASG_PAPA]

i prefer throwing lance at early game ^^ cuz at least u have some nuke to deals wif mages. on top of that , ur image sux at early when tehy have no damage

But lance throwing get kinda useless at late game and with pro opponent your lance throwing will not help out much.

[ShadowZ]

at least it help u in early game ?? =) , with lance, its easy to nuke a guy wif some clarity pots .. it might even giv u some early kills and he can chase down hero wif it. i used to go ur way, till some1 told me this, " do u think ur image is more painful, or ur lance is more painful before level 10 "
then i switch to lance

note :
BH's shuriken toss also sux at late game, does taht stop u from pumping it early ? nope

[DOTASG_PAPA]

at least it help u in early game ?? =) , with lance, its easy to nuke a guy wif some clarity pots .. it might even giv u some early kills and he can chase down hero wif it. i used to go ur way, till some1 told me this, " do u think ur image is more painful, or ur lance is more painful before level 10 "
then i switch to lance

note :
BH's shuriken toss also sux at late game, does taht stop u from pumping it early ? nope

But due to that he is agility, he does not have many mana to start with, you need enough mana to nuke you need pots or nulls which can be a waste of money as those money can be spent on better items.

[applecats]

i think lancer works well as an early game harrasser like the bounty. just 2 nulls should be enough to keep him mana saturated and great at killing those pesky int nukers.

Dopple Walk
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
Max Stats until Lvl 16 for Phantom Edge
Max Stats
Max Dopple Walk

Early items are Boots, 2 Nulls 1 Bracer (Sell bracers and nulls as necessary)
SNY
Threads (Or BOT before Manta)
Basher
Basher
Manta
MKB

Start just after getting your 2nd Spirit Lance and throw it at the enemy hero to lower their life. Agreed the lancer doesn't have that much life himself but you can dopple and use your image to lure the creeps away from getting to near the enemy hero (as the real you move in close to the enemy) then pop out behind him and getting a few hits on the fellow before pinning him down with another lance. It's not about killing that hero, but keeping them low on health so they have to keep going back to base to heal. This gives you the level advantage in early game that will grow as soon as you get juxtapose.

This strat isn't effective though, if you're alone against 2 nukers or a str hero but it's great if you're paired alone against the maiden/sniper/troll and the likes. If you're up against 2 heroes, have a teammate join you on the same lane AFTER you've soloed till level 4. By then, your spiritlance will have the damage advantage and you can pull off your stunt on the weaker hero while your teammate covers you by picking at the other hero.

I don't ever recommend killing the enemy hero below level 5 especially if there are 2 heroes because this will grant the remaining hero to level faster which is just as much a wasted effort. Keep both of them significantly down on health and back to heal. Unless one of them stubbornly decides to stay then nuke his ass so they can't level.

The lancer is a super farmer late game and with the manta/bashing combo, he can almost certainly perma stun anyone to kingdom come. If you have to pair the lancer up with someone early game, I'd almost always pick the lord of avernus for his mark and shield support.

[Klub 53]

well.. practically i disagree that spirit lane is useless as it acts as a chase support for yourself as well as your team mates.. and while spirit lance turned unless during later games, pudge comes into great effect which will more or less lead you to the build by Applecats.


klub¹

[DOTASG_PAPA]

well.. practically i disagree that spirit lane is useless as it acts as a chase support for yourself as well as your team mates.. and while spirit lance turned unless during later games, pudge comes into great effect which will more or less lead you to the build by Applecats.


klub¹

I understand, but if you build your lancer for late game then it's a might be better to pump those level into the more crucial spells than pumping into spirit lance first. Because for Phantom Lancer, that's the only damage spell and without a second damage spell it will only pinch opponent only as most of them now get ROR or ROH as starting item. Also in order to level up fast and get enough moola, you will not be hunting heroes but instead you will be farming and trust me that having ability to multiply images will help you farm like no tomorrow.

Anyway, lately I realised that instead of Burize it's better to get Monkey King Bar instead and it gives you the same damage bonus and it's also cheaper to make compare to burize.

[idle]

i dont see how u can get lvl 4 spirit lance at lvl 5 ? hebe's build seems feasible and suitable in early if u have another team mate, the slow can be quite helpful, lets say a veno is in ur lane, uh @_@.

[ShadowZ]

if u have 1 in doopple .. abit mana intensive ?

[Wilb]

I upped only a level of Spirit lance and Dopple walk first the rest for Juxtapose, stats and phantom edge. Spirit lance with a mini stun is good against channeling, i seldom used it to harress at the start :|.

[Pag[e]]

1 - He's a melee agi hero, he'll get ****d in early to mid games.

2 - he doesn't have a great skill to contribute in 5v5 battles. (no mass damage, no silence or stun)

3 - not much point wind walking and surviving after not doing much to help the team and your whole team dies,

4 - he's clones gonna go poof b4 they do anything due to the massive area damage spells of all the match heroes.

5 - so he pushes alone with tons of clones. the enemy team of 5 pushes another lane, u still have to go back and help ur team (with no clones so u're not gonna be much help anyways). so u decide to push while ur team def, fine they'll kill ur team and go straight for throne.

[King4hao]

PL is too easy to counter with aoe skill.
and remember,AOE is what clan are using these days

He will not survive much with warding+aoe.
It hard for him to survive early game

His clone are no use against aoe.Just a spammable carrion swarm and we will know who the real one.Beside,the fact that he fragile means a stun to him will be fatel

[AhCat]

still depends on the team strat. pl can solo push a lane while the others engage enemy fire.
i hope this isn't mega digging.

[miah121]

Personally, I don't get spirit lance early game since Phantom Lancer is a late game hero. Early game is for farming IMO. However, PL is one of the best late gamers out there. His mass images are painful and killing him is very difficult.

[AhCat]

I used to take dopple and illusion when i started playing PL, but recently i'm picking Spirit Lance. Feels more effective than the illusion skill.

[Archdevilasd]

phantom lancer and phantom assasin both hate phantoms.. spectre gonna tio lanced and assasinated ..

[Archdevilasd]

note.. assassinate has 4 "s" in it.. a typo on my part..

[olehze]

hu cares about spelling as long as we understand^^

[KCobain]

why do go for SnY? manta is a must on all image heroes.plus purge from diffusal could stall you enough time to nail a kill.

[satrughan]

i tell you early game pump lance and stat and only 1 dopple..why not jux because your life so low early you illu ppl cast skill aoe wan tada no more illu
so pump
lance
dopple
stat
lance
stat..and so on and so forth
until lvl 9
before getting difusal estimate what lvl you get then start pumpin the illu
why pump lance-stat ?? so can spam lance and get the added life oso
and oso lance is a waste if nvr pump early game 310 dmg plus slow 40 %
very good thing liao lo..

[quincyzzx]

no doubt he is a mvp hero....in veri veri late game...

[Shadow_Phantom]

My build is:
Doppelwalk
Spirit Lance
Doppelwalk
Doppelwalk
Spirit Lance
Juxtapose
Doppelwalk
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Stats
Juxtapose
Stats
Stats
Stats
Phantom Edge
Phantom Egde
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
Phantom Edge
Max out stats

[k n i g h t]

Get Dagon ftw... =)

[snowflakefairy]

pl can own with matas and Doppelwalk yah.

[Dois]

Best -

1 - Dopple
2 - Lance
3 - Lance
4 - Dopple
5 - Lance
6 - Phantom Edge
7 - Lance
8 - Dopple
9 - Dopple
10 - Juxtapose
11 - Phantom
12..14 - Juxtapose
16 - Phantom
17...

Lance and dopple will allow you to survive ALOT and get some kills if you go offensive.

Done well enough, you can get up to level 10 without going back to heal.

So now that youve got some levels, you can go and buy some of those whatever it is you like to buy... Manta or whatever.

But if you really wanna get early kills - Buy dagon.

Gives you mana too.

Anyway... thats NOT how I play lancer. I like adding Dopple and Juxtapose first because Lance is boring.

However, the way I see it, the good [best] way to play lancer is like this.

Try it. Make sure you don't die. - Get a Basilius and/or Headress ASAP.

Oh, I didn't read the previous posts until AFTER I posted and so now I'm editing and saying that Phantom Lancer IS a good hero killer early game. [if you follow the build I posted - don't need dagon to be strong] <-- To whoever said it can't kill early game.

[infinite91]

i think lancer works well as an early game harrasser like the bounty. just 2 nulls should be enough to keep him mana saturated and great at killing those pesky int nukers.

Dopple Walk
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
Max Stats until Lvl 16 for Phantom Edge
Max Stats
Max Dopple Walk

Early items are Boots, 2 Nulls 1 Bracer (Sell bracers and nulls as necessary)
SNY
Threads (Or BOT before Manta)
Basher
Basher
Manta
MKB

Start just after getting your 2nd Spirit Lance and throw it at the enemy hero to lower their life. Agreed the lancer doesn't have that much life himself but you can dopple and use your image to lure the creeps away from getting to near the enemy hero (as the real you move in close to the enemy) then pop out behind him and getting a few hits on the fellow before pinning him down with another lance. It's not about killing that hero, but keeping them low on health so they have to keep going back to base to heal. This gives you the level advantage in early game that will grow as soon as you get juxtapose.

This strat isn't effective though, if you're alone against 2 nukers or a str hero but it's great if you're paired alone against the maiden/sniper/troll and the likes. If you're up against 2 heroes, have a teammate join you on the same lane AFTER you've soloed till level 4. By then, your spiritlance will have the damage advantage and you can pull off your stunt on the weaker hero while your teammate covers you by picking at the other hero.

I don't ever recommend killing the enemy hero below level 5 especially if there are 2 heroes because this will grant the remaining hero to level faster which is just as much a wasted effort. Keep both of them significantly down on health and back to heal. Unless one of them stubbornly decides to stay then nuke his ass so they can't level.

The lancer is a super farmer late game and with the manta/bashing combo, he can almost certainly perma stun anyone to kingdom come. If you have to pair the lancer up with someone early game, I'd almost always pick the lord of avernus for his mark and shield support.
u cant max out yr skills at lvl 6 -_- wad i mean is u cant have lvl 4 spirit lance at lvl 6...coz u can only up yr skill at alternative lvl +_+

[t(G_G[lenN]t)NoRê™]

I have not seen many team using Phantom Lancer in highly competitive game. I keep thinking, "WHY".

The fact that he is melee already makes him less desirable than other heroes, but since heroes like Sand King or Lord of Avernus can make it, lets see whether Phantom Lancer has what it takes the join the melee competitive heroes.

Well, I have been playing Phantom Lancer from the day Icefrog's team have add this hero into DotA.

Why I love this hero is because this hero if play properly he almost never die and further more if you give him enough time to farm he can be a great ending hero. I have played so much till I am sicked of it. Unless I really wanted very much to win, if not I will not use it in any casual or competitive game.

Provided he is played with someone with at least a decent reaction time to press 'W' for Dopplewalk, he'll never die in a public game. Competitive games like inhouses will be different, teams won't hesitate to buy a Gem of Truesight to counter, and they know the advantage of travelling in groups.

Phantom Lancer might not be the swiss army knife compare to other heroes that you are looking for as he does not have great disabling spell and he cannot be a tank cos his HP is very low especially at the start. Then, what good is a he? Well, he can be a great lane pusher and game ender and he do not even need to have the whole team worrying about him being ganged and needing someone to save him. Thus, no fear and no worries of him not being around when the rest of the team is in action. If your team strategy allows him to not be around, then you will be surprised how he much he can contribute to win the game when he join back into the battle rank.

His early game is the time where he is most vulnerable. Due to the fact that the other opponent in his lane will be a ranged hero majority of the time in a competitive game, or a melee powerhouse like Sand King, which means he can't farm, if he can't farm, the only thing good about him would be Phantom Lancing them for the slow only. And only that.

Pushing, massing images and everything only happens late-game provided you get to farm. The problem is you won't get the chance to farm, not even neutrals, as when the other team realizes you're missing for too long, they've probably figured out you'll be neutralling.

Spamming Dopplewalk to survive in your lane isn't a very smart thing to do too, even though you get the EXP, you don't get the gold.

The secret of building a good Lancer which can help you team to walk on the road of victory is that you try not to let your Lancer die at any cost. These are the points to take note.

1) Avoid any kind of engagement when you are alone, or even when in situation that there are friend's hero nearby to help you. DO NOT ENGAGE!!

2) Keep your windwalking spell ready at all times. Only use it to escape tight situation.

3) Farm all kind of creeps you can find in the map. Farm all creeps that no one is guarding.

1) Every melee hero without a reliable stun should already have this in his mind before anything.

2) Every windwalking hero who has a smart brain does this for that matter.

3) Every late-gamer will do this. Will the Bone Clinkz not farm everything he can find so that he completes his Divine Rapier / Aegis of the Immortal faster?

There are a few item buying order, depending on your preference.
Starting Items: Boots, Bracer, PowerThread(after getting gloves),
Power Items:

Sange and Yasha, Catalyst, Burize
Catalyst, Burize, Butterfly


Spell order:
DoppleWalk
Juxtapose
DoppleWalk
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
(Max out Juxtapose)
(Max out Stats)
.
.
.
(Max Out Spirit Lance)
Ownage.

No...no. Juxtapose early is completely useless. It can't last-hit / deny, it can't tank and it appears very unfrequently. Spirit Lance should be taken much earlier as it is your only nuke, and it's your ticket to a kill during chasing or ganking.

Dopplewalk
Spirit Lance
Spirit Lance
Dopplewalk
Spirit Lance
Dopplewalk
Spirit Lance
Dopplewalk
Juxtapose
Phantom Edge
Phantom Edge
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
Juxtapose
(Attribute bonus)

You maximise your nuking and escaping skills early so that surviving will be easier and it will be much easier to harass or gank your opponents. There's no point taking Phantom Edge before 1 level of Juxtapose, since you only get the evasion, which isn't a lot. If you own with your previous build, I assure you'll own much more with this.

The item build is...not very good. Sange & Yasha is stupid. The attackspeed, movespeed, damage and maim doesn't stack with images AT ALL. Power Treads are sucky as well, considering that the attackspeed doesn't go into the images, and Boots of Travel should be gotten on all heroes except Furion in a competitive environment.

Who can guarantee the enemy won't backdoor when you push? Who can guarantee that your enemy will not do a sudden push when you're far from your base? What item can help you push another lane when your allies can hold the enemy advance? Boots of Travel allows you to counteract those actions and much more. Scroll of Town Portal will be much better early game, but it gets more and more redundant as the game continues.

Diffusal Blade will do much better. Rather than a unpredictable and unreliable maim only from the main hero, Diffusal Blade allows you to purge your enemy, as well as effectively increasing ALL your images' damage by 18 due to its feedback, burning their mana along with dealing damage. Manta Style gives around the same HP as Sange & Yasha as well as image splitting for confusion. Much better for a diversion and escape tactic compared to Sange & Yasha, and also a MUCH better DPS item for Phantom Lancer.

Butterfly would be okay, but don't underestimate Heart of Tarrasque. The HP it gives allows for massive tanking with ALL of your images, making backdooring and tanking damage ridiculously easy.
Well, this version of Phantom Lancer is slightly boring as there is not much action (due to being the scardy cat in the team) but you will sure live another day to tell how you team grab a smashing victory.

Still, at the end of the day, this is how I play my Phantom Lancer. So there must be many other ways to build a ass kicking Phantom Lancer, do kindly share your knowledge with fellow Dota gamers here.
My replies to your posts are bolded in the quote above.

Bottomline, though Phantom Lancer is a excellent hero late-game if he gets the opportunity to farm. The tough part is however making him farm, which is near impossible to do in a competitive environment, where only his above average base damage can help him last-hit / deny. While he may not be a top pick for competitive games, he is a powerful pub-bashing hero.

[Dart@]

Pl is extremely difficult to use. yes he is unstoppable during late game but.
An earthshaker can screw u badly,1 ulti of him with at least 7 of ur images.
You are so dead.One blink echo and a stun,you are dead. Of cos,you can dopple but its pointless. A good es will be able to predict which u will be running and stun at that direction. But at the end of the day,it goes down to the skill of the player . Cheers people,Happy cny

[xXSupanoobXx]

PL pushing with huge army of creeps and his images...
PL: WEEE!

ES enters with blink dagger and uses ES immediately.

ES has just pawned PL head for 310 gold!

PL: Erm... WTF happened?

[StripperA]

yeah, echo slam pwns images..

[freshie]

But lance throwing get kinda useless at late game and with pro opponent your lance throwing will not help out much.

i max my spirit lance and even doppelwalk, i get early items like perserverence or rob or even both, sometime maybe an eul, depending on enemy heroes.

to me pl without lance is like totally cant do anything to help to a team in early game or even mid game. i dont even go for image because the damage is low anyway, practicing last hitting is more pratical then rely on image, unless you are neutraling all the time like naix. And with images you might not be able to control your creeps pushing that much, i prefer to have creep engagement somewhere not too far from my tower, and keep them there.

maxing doppelwalk you will realise how cheap the mana to doppel, cooldown is fast too. Sometime i use it to scout, bluff opponent to waste spell on it, check runes or even walk through suspicious places if there is a techie as an enemy.

but still he is kinda weak for match, although i love him as an end game hero, but i highly doubt he will be able to reach end game with good items.

[StripperA]

max spirit lance and doppelwalk at the start is better..

[sheny_1]

i thk max SL first doppel u can pump it 2-3 lvl .. since max SL is more important.. it's a free nuke/slow..

[Mrsleepyx]

well i suggest buying a heart for him to strengthen his health maybe?
or a early vanguard...

[StripperA]

phantom lancer is sexy when the images start going up..

[Rejinderi]

PL is my favorite char its not really that difficult to use unless u wanna make complex stuff outta his illusions

spirit lance is good for chasing and annoying ur enemy, as well as helping for escapes and ks'ing xD therefore i think spiritlance should be the first skill to be pumped once u go with the first creep wave and reach ur opponent, throw a lance and by level 3 add another and throw again.. until level 7 ur mana should already be generated totally and when it reaches level 7 the slow and damage is very useful

doppelwalk should be pumped vice versa with sl as pl cant do much early game ( without illusions ) and pl shouldnt be pumping on illusions at all until mid game as u hardly get to hit creeps early game at all ( lower hp and def due to ability to dupe plus it serves as a really good escape skill with only 3 seconds u can cast another one

after maxing out both skills, add on your ulti first, it gives u more evasion/dodge and then finally add on dupes and on ulti whenever u can isnt it the best? :D

im not sure why it isnt a mvp hero but his pushing abilities are so amazing

itembuild
- ring of health, tango
- 2 braces for faster hp regen
- bos
- robe and boa > diffusal blade
- bot
- manta style or eagle horn first ( if u still have a lotta diffusal charges )

then finally fill all the extra slots with hearts or get a radiance :D u dont wanna get damaging items as it will reveal ur true self, get agility items is better plus they dont stack on illusions

comments pls >.>

[SialaManGKao]

phantom lancer is one of the strongest late gamer in dota , provided ur abled to lvl and get decent item . as for the lance , it should be a skill that shd be maxed at lvl 7 , becos he have a high intel for agi hero , which is made for spamming his lance , the cooldown is fast too . by spamming it non stop ,he works as a nuker as early game . (: as for dopplewalk , some person learn max for mana cost , some learn 1 and rather pump stats.and that is up to the user's preferrence

[StripperA]

PL is my favorite char its not really that difficult to use unless u wanna make complex stuff outta his illusions

spirit lance is good for chasing and annoying ur enemy, as well as helping for escapes and ks'ing xD therefore i think spiritlance should be the first skill to be pumped once u go with the first creep wave and reach ur opponent, throw a lance and by level 3 add another and throw again.. until level 7 ur mana should already be generated totally and when it reaches level 7 the slow and damage is very useful

doppelwalk should be pumped vice versa with sl as pl cant do much early game ( without illusions ) and pl shouldnt be pumping on illusions at all until mid game as u hardly get to hit creeps early game at all ( lower hp and def due to ability to dupe plus it serves as a really good escape skill with only 3 seconds u can cast another one

after maxing out both skills, add on your ulti first, it gives u more evasion/dodge and then finally add on dupes and on ulti whenever u can isnt it the best? :D

im not sure why it isnt a mvp hero but his pushing abilities are so amazing

itembuild
- ring of health, tango
- 2 braces for faster hp regen
- bos
- robe and boa > diffusal blade
- bot
- manta style or eagle horn first ( if u still have a lotta diffusal charges )

then finally fill all the extra slots with hearts or get a radiance :D u dont wanna get damaging items as it will reveal ur true self, get agility items is better plus they dont stack on illusions

comments pls >.>

good first post, at least its not used for flaming..welcome to dotasg lol..

[Rejinderi]

good first post, at least its not used for flaming..welcome to dotasg lol..

well ty :) u r very kind

[StripperA]

its better than ppl who come into the forums with a first post like KNNCCB and so on so forth, :Banane57:

[d0minic]

who who ??

[d0minic]

anyway i always had this philosophy in dota. always max out the early game to mid game skills b4 it gets uselss in late game

what i meant was. since spirit lance will be nothing as a late game nuke, why not get in early game which sometimes might prove to be good ?

[StripperA]

eh sounds logical, dunno la got ppl who come in the forums first post scold ppl clan noob, so on so forth..