WinterChill 2009: Postponed Till Further Notice. Collect You Refund At CyberDome.

[DOTASG_PAPA]

http://www.dotasg.com/images/winter09_articlebanner.jpg

Singapore - In the midst of the commotions that have happened to DotaSG recently, although doing some self defending and flame fighting, WinterChill has always been our main concern. Even while dealing for those who seek blood without even looking at the big picture and how it would affect the community. Most importantly how it will affect on the upcoming event. Work is still done every single minute left to best effort to ensure WinterChill can pull through. But all these efforts fighting hard to keep it alive was utterly destroyed, nothing more can be done to save it no matter how hard I tried. It’s over for now. If the ones who instigated the commotions in here think you have victory, well you have your victory. The ones who suffer heavily the wake of this commotions create by the instigators are in fact someone from the community, the very gamers that they claimed to be championing for.

If you want to know why these concerns arises and what had elevated it, please proceed to hunt for source and check out what those instigators has done and is still doing to cause damage every second, every minute. Behind closed door, on a “fan” site they created for me and a new forum they created. I will not link it for their convenience. I do not mind having coins thrown at me but it is a duty also to protect and respect sponsor's concern.

After talking to our sponsor, it was mutual that the event will not be able to carry out as planned due to smooth operation, venue order and safety concerns. Final attempt to save it was quickly carried out to check to see if there is possibility of another suitable venue as replacement, but comes with a cost attached that we cannot afford. Even if we do not earn a single penny, have to make a heavy loss. These are the best venues with very conducive environment for WinterChill, there were left with no other options in sigh. Also with so much undone, there is no time left.

The impact of such actions extends beyond down deep into the community and those watching what these instigators have been doing. This is how damaging those actions have caused. It also further proves their mentality and their ability are in question when handling what they claimed to champion for. That is why they are being banned from DotaSG starting from the point when enough is enough. Agreed it was pretty hash but it was not uncalled for. Be it those who slammed, accused or insulted DotaSG's intergrity or my character. Those that helped voluntarily, given directions or merely falling to peer pressure by those already banned to post or to paste content of flame fanning nature are also as guilty of mischief and banned. Lastly, those with extremely childish post by ones initially thought to be sensible but was again proven they are just typical gamers who like to create trouble. All these are dealt with by me.

There are many people who are watching us from different walk of life and from within the gaming industry, some of them already have bad impression of gamers in general and are always disgust by gamers who ganged up. You further prove that their fears are correct. With your senseless crusade, damages done are irreversible.

WinterChill is officially postponed until further notice. All teams please do collect your refund from CyberDome from tomorrow, Saturday onwards. They will be opened 24 hours daily. Just bring along your receipt, those that lost your receipt has to be there personally to collect. Those with receipt with you can pass it to another person and ask him/her to collect the refund on your behalf.

PaPa from DotaSG would sincerely apologise to all the confirmed teams and those in the waiting list for the trouble we have brought you. Those that still holding on to the vouchers from previous events can still use them for future events. If you are unsure of will there be future events, then please PM me and we will work out what we can do for you about your prize vouchers.

Now the saddest announcement has been made, it will be time to reflect what has happened and had lead to all these.
First, what was started as a very simple gesture of goodwill to bring a new component in the form of a preliminary to extend chances to those who are in the waiting list.

This was the accusation of unfairness and professionalism. We were accuse of rigging the signup slot allocation or priority with KS and Sweety. This was later proven wrong and then the next accusation surface about it as an act to scam money by the instigators and further accusation of favoring particular teams . And later follow on by one new accusation after another.

If you take a closer look at this group of users who initiated the commotions, many of them are not involve in the main event themselves. And important things to note, most of them came with hate or grudge towards KS, DreamChazer and KS. People who carry hates and grudge, how would you expect their judgment and analysis of the situation to be fair? And then many of them have got their argument point wrong, when proven wrong they switch direction to use another argument point to continue to champion for their claimed justice. They just want to see blood without any room for reasoning and discussion.

Let’s look now at the things they accusing us of. If there were any undertable dealings, then DotaSG could have not announced it and make it a closed door event, I could have use the clause stated in the registration or rules that give us rights to make the final decision. But if you notice throughout the event I refused to use it as my argument even at the advice of some onlooker suggested me to do so. It’s just not my style. But you will ask, why ban those people and ban them from the event? Wait and I get back to it later. So back to what we are talking about, like I say I did make sure everyone are fine with the arrangement personally and then made an announcement. Waiting list teams were called, briefed about needing to pay, have to play only and who released it. On top of that, were given the choice to not participate at all and get their refund and given time to discuss with teammate before getting back to me again. Those teams agreed did not voice out any concern at all. NONE. So while I was fighting off these accusations, a couple of waiting list teams which initially agreed to it voiced their concern from what they posted. I immediately call the teams again before they further misunderstanding. They said they understand and again reassure me they would want to be part of it. Those that do not want to be part of it pulled out. Again I was hit another time by those assuring they want to be part of it. If you want to join, then why you are still not satisfy? There is no way, no way, a team given a second chance to not has to pay a price to play if you want it so much. And in first place why was it not brought up, if you have done that you would have help us to prevent all these misunderstanding and damages that lead by it. Instead of helping you all help to give those instigators a bigger weapon to hurt us. Do you all understand, you helped them hurt us.

Actually, I found out another misunderstanding is the fact that many assumed that KS and Sweety initially did not get the slot. They thought they were the added teams into the 32 decided team. Due to undertable dealing they got into WinterChill as extra teams. This shows that they did not read the announcement properly. Again, they did not get their fact right to support their argument at all. Pointing out another part about Dreamz, a waiting list team further accusing us that they are sure that they were before KS. The fact is KS paid earlier than Dreamz. Dreamz paid extremely late on the payment slot and also registering extremely late. They are lucky there were offered a slot in the waiting list because some who registered early did not pay and they are still not grateful. KS and Sweety got it fair and square, and because during the last few moment when before the call to cut off for those who booked a slot, they understand the anxiety of being temporary in the waiting list thus I guess that’s why they are willing to give it up.

So next accusation to look at is about scamming of money, I have done so many event in the past for all of you, if you notice the prizes are given from 1st to the 8th. Although some are vouchers, but these convert to money when they claimed their voucher. And did you all every think about how come there are cash award for “Best Newcomer(s)” or “Best Improved” teams. These are the small things which some of it might goes.

So with their demand, but with their action which is actually being unfair to DotaSG already, how do you expected me to further give in to their demand to explain one things after another that was brought up. Especially, coming to money and how we deal with them, we are a never a non profit entity. Doing things for the community as I always as genuine and true but does not means we are not going to make profit. Come one, let be fair here, would anyone of you like to do what I do for free? We never trumpet ourselves as a non profit company which again we were accused of.

In DotaSG, our events and activities provided, everything needs money to run and execute for a reason. If there is a sponsor or partner, then we will provide more attractive events like ShowDown series if anyone remembers. However, in hard times and under tight budget we still match up or throw in surprised for you all like the awards. If there is a need to reveal everything then what would be the fun? Or event will be no different from some other standard event. In DotaSG you noticed our event are most of the time different with things added in like the ProPowerPlay that why we need everyone’s cooperation to follow some of the registration instruction. It’s actually part of a plan to help local DotA becomes a little more interesting and add more sense of professionalism in it.

Again this ProPowerPlay was use by those who accuse us of using it to justify for work and cost. And further saying it was not needed, no useful and not asked for without giving it a chance to pick up pace. It has only been two event that had used this system, and actually it will get more exciting with WinterChill. Just have to trust us. You all have trust us for so many events already, what makes it so hard to continue to do so. Is it peer pressure, or maybe more fun to fight for something in numbers?

The funniest thing is that these people went as far back as the previous events saying why KS was rigged to be far from one another but in fact there are drawing videos to prove. But they went on next to speculate that the videos are fakes. So it’s clear from that point that no explanation is going to satisfy their thirst for blood. With more following blindly and going against DotaSG daily. Again, I will like to stress, you hurt DotaSG in a way, but the damaged you have done to the community is further plenty fold to what you have done to DotaSG. Many teams will be disappointed, many who are looking at it as last event before they go army will be disappointed, those who are looking to debut their team will be disappointed.

Finally, I will talked about my mod. I know he had certain personal difference(s) with you all, but those are all private. Don’t you all also had create personal difference(s) with someone before. Agreed that the tone for justifying what he is doing is wrong. But looking at this situation he was protecting the interest of DotaSG that’s why infractions (not ban) were issued to Soloz- which was the first to be banned by our auto banning system when someone collect 8 or more infractions point. These infractions were justifiable looking at why he use them on. And further proves so when show with evidence that Soloz have made request to Deamchazer of removal of my access from my own forum, which was denied by him and after that which they turned their attention on him. By the way, I think that is a very serious attempt of ill intention by Soloz- if it's true but that I will leave it to just that that for others to judge.

So I guess you all must be very happy with your Victory. You this challenge which you all have put up going to make a better change. When you make an organiser lost faith and lose its respect with your senseless revolution there is not point anymore for the organiser to do anything usually. Again do you think that will benefit the community.

Lastly before I end it, I would like to point out the so call appointed instigators leader was an ex crew by the name of Soloz- who holds grudge against me together with some of his friends and those he influenced which was is very obvious. I utterly regret having him as a crew thus have clear off his contributions as we do not want to have any associations with him. With his actions and the damage he and his group had done, all credits have been wipe off by his over own hands. DotaSG will take it that we do not have such a crew with us before

But this is not the end of things and DotaSG; We are not closing the door to settle the commotion peacefully. Those banned can also be given a chance and be unbanned with condition that they will never do anything that damage DotaSG and the community again. If they refuse to apologise to DotaSG (most probably), but they have to be able to wake up and apologise then try to make up the damage done to the community. End of the day we need to build back what we have destroy and not furthering it death.

As for those who still are not satisfy with my explanation and actions. Like I say, if you are looking for blood you will never be able to agree with me. I am prepared for other rounds of the remaining one who are ready to pounce on us. If DotaSG or I have to go down in history as the bad guy, then there is no regret.

My stand is firm and DotaSG and what we are always with the best intention to improve the current situation of the gaming scene here and with community interest in our mind. At the same time we will need to protect our interest and integrity for the sake of DotaSG and our community.

I know the above might be jarring, but it's time to say this is the way how things are, these are the facts and this is my final take on the whole incident.

From now on, it's not my call. It's yours. To continue on destroying or to help us rebuild?

[ToLeRaNcEzErO]

sad to say this but
its hard to be a bad guy ah, papa

[ZyHinoX]

gg postponed. -___-

[zilch]

Oh well, been keeping quiet for the whole commotion just so we avoid getting banned (just in case), and still no Winterchill, oh shucks. Don't disturb me when i'm playing mahjong! *Banned*

[ZyHinoX]

lol and so i was about to tink winterchill will be the first dotasg offline compy tat wont be postponed.. too bad the tradition is still there =.=

[Heaven]

Well guys, there is a limit to everything, please remember to handle it in a matured/ professional manner, for those who studied law, " defamation " is a serious issue.

[ChaosArya]

Winterchill Status: PWNT

[Zc`]

haiz too bad too sad

[Muchi]

papa , no worries, i will support u till de end alright :D

[qwertdog]

So next accusation to look at is about scamming of money, I have done so many event in the past for all of you, if you notice the prizes are given from 1st to the 8th. Although some are vouchers, but these convert to money when they claimed their voucher. And did you all every think about how come there are cash award for “Best Newcomer(s)” or “Best Improved” teams. These are the small things which


which.....?????

[PuRify]

waste time n effort.......................

[Muchi]

aiya papa , they dun appreiciate ur effort , hack care them , hope to see more compy and don let this affect u bah , :D

[s[ky]h4rtx]

waste time n effort.......................

wasting everyone's time n effort ...................... for those who trained so hard and ended up to get postponed or rather cancelled very dissapointing

[dEn]

Well guys, there is a limit to everything, please remember to handle it in a matured/ professional manner, for those who studied law, " defamation " is a serious issue.

Yes, QFT. Alan speaks the truth.

[Zc`]

There goes jj's last compy.

[dreamking]

i wonder whos gonna get affected most? DotaSG or the people.

[Sixers]

h4rtx;88004']wasting everyone's time n effort ...................... for those who trained so hard and ended up to get postponed or rather cancelled very dissapointing

There goes jj's last compy. But u still got ur gamehaven compy =]

[-MyWishIsToDie-]

wah damn sian, took a lot of effort to change our lineup and trained damn hard, in the end postponed ==

[ID.King]

Papa's Only way to end the bloodshed.
In Sacrifice of the players .
I'm a victim too .
Haix.

[masae]

postpone again..

[DeAdZ]

wah damn sian, took a lot of effort to change our lineup and trained damn hard, in the end postponed ==

You and your team can take the extra time to train even hardER

[XianGxxxX]

dotasg papa i would like to voice my support out to you. on the behalf of those who share my opinion, i thank you for everything that you have given to the singapore dota community. your contributions are very much appreciated, and this setback will never erase anything that you have done for us. thank you again.

[nabilun]

I would just like to say, as the leader of a newly formed team(FoF) who was very excited to be joining their first ever DotA competition Winter chill, that I feel extremely sad for DotaSG, which did all it could to organize this event for all of us fellow DotA-ers.I sincerely hope that an event will be held in the near future if possible. Furthermore, the fact that this event had to be postponed/canceled strikes me as a really strange thing, especially the reasons as why it was so.

After spending some time looking up on the back story of this "drama", I was appalled at the immaturity of some DotaSG members, who brazenly attacked DotaSG to which they owed at least some respect, if not trust.It is,frankly, shocking how some people can be such utterly childish and spiteful, even if they have concrete evidence of any wrongdoing(which, in my opinion, they don't).

Finally, I hope this situation can be seen in the future as a milestone of DotaSG, not a millstone;this is an opportunity to pick DotaSG up again and begin anew from the pieces of this tragedy.So yes, SG_Papa, I'll help you rebuild DotaSG any way I can.Even if it takes all of our sweat and blood, we will show these people what DotaSG really is about.

[poohBEARR]

in the end, postponed. so who caused it? it takes both hands to clap.

[sheRaiLei]

The basic few questions that sparked off the whole episode has not been answered in your 'thesis-long' explanations. The accusations that you mentioned were just conspiracy theories that was established because that few basic questions were not answered.

For example, regarding the 'scamming of money' issue, a simple reply such as "The 8 teams were all given a chance to play (although it's online) and therefore they have to pay the registration fees too. This sum of money will be invested in the next compy and when it is, I will state so in order for everyone to be clear where the money goes to."
Or you could simply be flexible and collect registration fees only from the two teams that would be getting the 2 slots. That would be more clear-cut and to the point, in my pov...

An explanation that highlights your contributions and your past ways of handling money-related issues does not suffice to an adequate explanation. However, I do agree that the lines such as 'Look at how much I've done' and 'You know my character..' are very popular, common helpful explanations in times of conflict.

Your method of instilling discipline in this forum worked. Many of us are fearful of getting banned from taking part in future dota-sg compies. Please don't ban me for providing a clearer picture of how the situation might have been mishandled. My teammates would be upset :(

Thanks!

[Sixers]

I would just like to say, as the leader of a newly formed team(FoF) who was very excited to be joining their first ever DotA competition Winter chill, that I feel extremely sad for DotaSG, which did all it could to organize this event for all of us fellow DotA-ers.I sincerely hope that an event will be held in the near future if possible. Furthermore, the fact that this event had to be postponed/canceled strikes me as a really strange thing, especially the reasons as why it was so.

After spending some time looking up on the back story of this "drama", I was appalled at the immaturity of some DotaSG members, who brazenly attacked DotaSG to which they owed at least some respect, if not trust.It is,frankly, shocking how some people can be such utterly childish and spiteful, even if they have concrete evidence of any wrongdoing(which, in my opinion, they don't).

Finally, I hope this situation can be seen in the future as a milestone of DotaSG, not a millstone;this is an opportunity to pick DotaSG up again and begin anew from the pieces of this tragedy.So yes, SG_Papa, I'll help you rebuild DotaSG any way I can.Even if it takes all of our sweat and blood, we will show these people what DotaSG really is about.

you can be like tomoDOG.

[flamezz]

you can be like tomoDOG.

i love u sixer

[ah_tys]

I would just like to say, as the leader of a newly formed team(FoF) who was very excited to be joining their first ever DotA competition Winter chill, that I feel extremely sad for DotaSG, which did all it could to organize this event for all of us fellow DotA-ers.I sincerely hope that an event will be held in the near future if possible. Furthermore, the fact that this event had to be postponed/canceled strikes me as a really strange thing, especially the reasons as why it was so.

After spending some time looking up on the back story of this "drama", I was appalled at the immaturity of some DotaSG members, who brazenly attacked DotaSG to which they owed at least some respect, if not trust.It is,frankly, shocking how some people can be such utterly childish and spiteful, even if they have concrete evidence of any wrongdoing(which, in my opinion, they don't).

Finally, I hope this situation can be seen in the future as a milestone of DotaSG, not a millstone;this is an opportunity to pick DotaSG up again and begin anew from the pieces of this tragedy.So yes, SG_Papa, I'll help you rebuild DotaSG any way I can.Even if it takes all of our sweat and blood, we will show these people what DotaSG really is about.

immediately a por kia comes out.

[weee]

no more compy then come out por..
war finish then come out talk..
for what..
decision made

[Sixers]

i love u sixer

bobby dont por mi, i treat u a lollipop next time =)

[†aiZi-]

I base my viewpoints on a NEUTRAL ground and I'm NOT looking for blood. I've read the 35 pages long thread. Took me a couple of hours. Below is my unbiased analysis of the situation.

1) I understand that dotasgpapa is trying to give teams an opportunity to have a go at this competition by introducing the preliminary rounds. I think we should be thankful for it. However, if one do not look deeper into it, he or she would have thought it would be a great addition-- a seemingly harmless one. However, it is a double edged sword and is what Soloz- and other fellow forumers had claimed earlier on, unfair.

Firstly, the preliminaries include 2 top tier teams, and new participants with no prior experience would be at a huge disadvantage. Furthermore, the participants would have to go through an additional round to be able to win the tournament. This deeply impacts their chances of winning the tournament. If everyone is paying an equal amount of $55 to enter this tournament, they should be given equal chances of winning, assuming that they are equal on skills. I believe this is only fair.

I hope forumers know what Soloz- has been fighting for was not a matter of what dotasg papa will do with the 6x$55, but the fairness and structure of this tournament, as well as the role distortion by the moderator, dreamchazer. The issue of the entry of KS is a seperate issue and Soloz- should not be blamed. Dotasgpapa, from the looks of your post, you are directing every fault at him now. Why? Why are you trying so hard to make him seem like the bad guy when in fact, he was fighting for the interests of us, forumers/gamers. You have yet to give us a feasible explanation at all.

I do know Soloz- has aggravated matters, and it is uncalled for. But you have to admit that you played a major part in this. You have ignored the forumers' doubts which led to a snowball of flamewars and displeasing comments. Should you have settled the qualms and doubts of the participants amicably and quickly, it could have been avoided but you chose to ignore and even going as far out to banning them. The consquences are heavy and you might not be able to shoulder it.

2) Regarding dreamchazer, dotasgpapa I wish to know how you are going to deal with him. I believe majority of the forumers wish to have him stripped of his moderator status. He should not be forgiven. You might plead with us to give him a second chance but has he shown any remorse? Has he apologized? No. In a seperate saga involving one of our ex-moderater, SG_Lancelot. He has apologized and shown deep remorse. He was forgiven. However, Dreamchazer displayed bad attitude and deployed inappropriate means of handling situations. Furthermore, he continued to be sacarstic and hostile in his later posts. This should not be tolerated and having him continue as a moderator is a disgrace to the community as well as setting a bad example towards the forumers.

3) Infractions and bans should be meted out properly meted out and NEVER to be abused. In this saga, I've seen unnecessary infractions and bans. For reasons like, "Playing mahjong (Soloz-)" and "No appropriate reason (zE)". This only increases doubts and the loss of confidence towards the forum within the community. I have to agree, posts with uncalled for comments and profanities ought to be infracted.

However, voicing out of comments is to be taken seriously. These feedbacks will be vital towards the growth of the forum. Forumers should not be banned on such grounds. It's totally wrong. Why do you want to ban them for their efforts to improve the forum and the competition? Moreover, their posts were not filled with aggression nor absurdity. It was filled with comments backed with evidence and meant for improving the community and competition experience for the participants. Why would you think of it as threat, I seriously do not understand. Were you just acting on impulse?

I believe a man who is able of bringing this forum to such heights is able to think rationally and reach a settlement with the forumers without any further conflicts. I have been following this forum for more than a year and indeed, DotaSG has went through a huge change which I'll say is for the worse. The past was so much fun, with lesser restrictions placed on our posts and the community was definitely more bonded back then. Dotasg papa, you have became more uptight over the rules and have forgot the initial purpose of this forum, to provide a fun environment for Singapore DotA-ers to communicate. Maybe it was because of the pressure from organizing the WC tournament?

Reflect on your actions, dotasg papa and think hard-- if the majority of the forumers are revolting, surely the chances are it isn't their fault, right? As much as you demand an apology from the banned members, I think it should be you, dotasg papa who should apologize, as well as Soloz-.
Cast aside your pride and your locked mentality bend on thinking that the opposite party is at fault. Apologize. Then, we would be able to work on reviving this forum and the fading local DotA scene. Let's not lose hope and keep our fingers crossed.

Cheers.

P.s. Dreamchazer, you are seriously the person who deserves the label, f***ing c**t.
p.s.s. I never had infractions before. Will I get my first? Or would it be a straight ban?

[englin]

p.s.s. I never had infractions before. Will I get my first? Or would it be a straight ban?

Nah. I dont think so! Its an honest opinion that which worth reading.

Getting ban is not that easy.

[<3joy-]

well said by †aizi- !

but i seriously doubt anyone will apologise

too much pride

[Zc`]

Nah. I dont think so! Its an honest opinion that which worth reading.

Getting ban is not that easy.

what BugsBunny said was also an honest opinion :o he got banned instantly.

[ah_tys]

Nah. I dont think so! Its an honest opinion that which worth reading.

Getting ban is not that easy.

seriously i tink is quite easy.

[englin]

seriously i tink is quite easy.

er nope it isnt.

We as MOD are humans not robots. If we sense the content is offensive than we ban.

[†aiZi-]

er nope it isnt.

We as MOD are humans not robots. If we sense the content is offensive than we ban.

I guess what he meant was the recent unnecessary banning of several other forumers.

[-MyWishIsToDie-]

is this the end of jj? wc postponed, gamehaven compy oso postponed. ggfied..

[BaByWizZieE]

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. sad to jj :( waste timeeeeee

[†aiZi-]

SoloZ

Peon

Joined : 12 Feb 2009
Posts : 18
If it makes anyone better, yes i will apologize for what i have done. At the very least, i have made trouble, disrupted the successful progression of this Winterchill tournament, and am responsible for many of the community's actions, which not many have been ideal. For that i will apologize. The question now is, Thomas, will you lower yourself and apologize for what you have done?

dotasg papa. isn't it time for you to do the same too?

[s[ky]h4rtx]

Nah. I dont think so! Its an honest opinion that which worth reading.

Getting ban is not that easy.

from what i seee, its easy for now i can say.

[dEn]

dotasg papa. isn't it time for you to do the same too?

Honestly, from what I can infer as of papa's latest post, he does not think that he is in the wrong, and will not apologise in the near future. To each his own, I guess :\

[FIZ.]

papa! heard of yi ren rang yi bu, hai kuo tian kong? since soloz apologised already, then why not do the same. i believe the 'rebels' would deeply appriciate the apology.

ps : im on a neutral stand

[LSmurF-`]

maybe you can hold on to the deposits, held the winterchill next week mb? let stuffs settled down for a week.

[xabo]

I base my viewpoints on a NEUTRAL ground and I'm NOT looking for blood.
P.s. Dreamchazer, you are seriously the person who deserves the label, f***ing c**t.

****ing ****, thats biased already. hahaha

not happy with decision = offer suggestion. dotasgpapa accept solution = good. never accept then think of more solution. dotasgpapa dun agree, u buay song him then /ignore him. good example ---> lsmurf.(caused he offered suggestion)

[LSmurF-`]

come on! lets peace out. no point declaring war here and there. apologise is the key! make love not war. papa thats wad you always said right?

[TipTapToe]

Apology is all everyone wanted isn't it. is it so difficult to say sorry for the things we done?

sorry seems to be the hardest word.

[zlzl]

soon no more dotasg... if still go on

[mijp]

There will always be haters and doubters. Even in official sports like football, there's always calls on referee being bias and siding a team. Just be true to your integrity and know that you aren't doing anything wrong. Even if you do earn a little profit, you earned it from organizing the competition. This coming from someone who runs/help to runs online leagues for warcraft 3, so I know the amount of work needed to manage a competition successfully.

Hope you bring back the winterchill competition as soon as possible. Good luck.

[waii]

it will be ages before the next compy come out after this whole incident =\

[acuthebadass]

Woah...I so long never open dotasg and DREAMCHAZER got so many enemies already lol...
hahaha...what is actually happening here?
DreamChazer, hope u realize that u are not ALWAYS right in this case...no human is perfect pls...u think u doing the right thing, but maybe other ppl dont think so...hope u learn...there is no absolute right and wrong in this world...
btw thx 4 ur effort to me all this time including ur invitation to power inhouse...i appreciate it...

[faded]

When you do apologize, it means you admit you are in the wrong.

[dEn]

When you do apologize, it means you admit you are in the wrong.

Which is why, "sorry seems to be the hardest word to say".

[pRaYeR]

I base my viewpoints on a NEUTRAL ground and I'm NOT looking for blood. I've read the 35 pages long thread. Took me a couple of hours. Below is my unbiased analysis of the situation.

1) I understand that dotasgpapa is trying to give teams an opportunity to have a go at this competition by introducing the preliminary rounds. I think we should be thankful for it. However, if one do not look deeper into it, he or she would have thought it would be a great addition-- a seemingly harmless one. However, it is a double edged sword and is what Soloz- and other fellow forumers had claimed earlier on, unfair.

Firstly, the preliminaries include 2 top tier teams, and new participants with no prior experience would be at a huge disadvantage. Furthermore, the participants would have to go through an additional round to be able to win the tournament. This deeply impacts their chances of winning the tournament. If everyone is paying an equal amount of $55 to enter this tournament, they should be given equal chances of winning, assuming that they are equal on skills. I believe this is only fair.

I hope forumers know what Soloz- has been fighting for was not a matter of what dotasg papa will do with the 6x$55, but the fairness and structure of this tournament, as well as the role distortion by the moderator, dreamchazer. The issue of the entry of KS is a seperate issue and Soloz- should not be blamed. Dotasgpapa, from the looks of your post, you are directing every fault at him now. Why? Why are you trying so hard to make him seem like the bad guy when in fact, he was fighting for the interests of us, forumers/gamers. You have yet to give us a feasible explanation at all.

I do know Soloz- has aggravated matters, and it is uncalled for. But you have to admit that you played a major part in this. You have ignored the forumers' doubts which led to a snowball of flamewars and displeasing comments. Should you have settled the qualms and doubts of the participants amicably and quickly, it could have been avoided but you chose to ignore and even going as far out to banning them. The consquences are heavy and you might not be able to shoulder it.

2) Regarding dreamchazer, dotasgpapa I wish to know how you are going to deal with him. I believe majority of the forumers wish to have him stripped of his moderator status. He should not be forgiven. You might plead with us to give him a second chance but has he shown any remorse? Has he apologized? No. In a seperate saga involving one of our ex-moderater, SG_Lancelot. He has apologized and shown deep remorse. He was forgiven. However, Dreamchazer displayed bad attitude and deployed inappropriate means of handling situations. Furthermore, he continued to be sacarstic and hostile in his later posts. This should not be tolerated and having him continue as a moderator is a disgrace to the community as well as setting a bad example towards the forumers.

3) Infractions and bans should be meted out properly meted out and NEVER to be abused. In this saga, I've seen unnecessary infractions and bans. For reasons like, "Playing mahjong (Soloz-)" and "No appropriate reason (zE)". This only increases doubts and the loss of confidence towards the forum within the community. I have to agree, posts with uncalled for comments and profanities ought to be infracted.

However, voicing out of comments is to be taken seriously. These feedbacks will be vital towards the growth of the forum. Forumers should not be banned on such grounds. It's totally wrong. Why do you want to ban them for their efforts to improve the forum and the competition? Moreover, their posts were not filled with aggression nor absurdity. It was filled with comments backed with evidence and meant for improving the community and competition experience for the participants. Why would you think of it as threat, I seriously do not understand. Were you just acting on impulse?

I believe a man who is able of bringing this forum to such heights is able to think rationally and reach a settlement with the forumers without any further conflicts. I have been following this forum for more than a year and indeed, DotaSG has went through a huge change which I'll say is for the worse. The past was so much fun, with lesser restrictions placed on our posts and the community was definitely more bonded back then. Dotasg papa, you have became more uptight over the rules and have forgot the initial purpose of this forum, to provide a fun environment for Singapore DotA-ers to communicate. Maybe it was because of the pressure from organizing the WC tournament?

Reflect on your actions, dotasg papa and think hard-- if the majority of the forumers are revolting, surely the chances are it isn't their fault, right? As much as you demand an apology from the banned members, I think it should be you, dotasg papa who should apologize, as well as Soloz-.
Cast aside your pride and your locked mentality bend on thinking that the opposite party is at fault. Apologize. Then, we would be able to work on reviving this forum and the fading local DotA scene. Let's not lose hope and keep our fingers crossed.

Cheers.

P.s. Dreamchazer, you are seriously the person who deserves the label, f***ing c**t.
p.s.s. I never had infractions before. Will I get my first? Or would it be a straight ban?

+1 This guy speaks the truth. Probably enough to sum everything up.

[TipTapToe]

i hope everyone apologizes cause they MEAN it. and not for the sake of doing it.

[streamofhonour]

As i have stated in my previous posts, its all about one word.

FACE.

Everyone just wants to win, isn't it? Thats why it is so hard for people to just stand out and say that they are sorry.

Let go of one step people. It will broaden your horizons and will allow you to see the situation clearly.This is directed to both parties that had been bming each other.

[underminer]

Have been witnessing one of the greatest displays of passion from various parties in this site for the past few days. Never thought a discussion of Competitive Dota can involve so many great individuals that dug so deep to prove a point in the utmost intelligent ways. Wish it is as lively back here in Malaysia.

However as a competitive community who supports the best plays of Dota, it is also your responsibility to do everything you can to support tournament organizers in whatever way possible. While trying to improve the tournament is certainly plausible, there is no doubt that the postponement or god-forbid cancellation of this tournament is down to certain posts that are no less convincing that the first post will ever be and maybe you are right.

If this outcome is what was intended then congratulations, you guys won but at what cost? Cancellation of a tournament due to security concerns? This headline alone will definitely stop all sane sponsors from ever stepping foot in support of Dota competitions for some time to come.

I am not saying the author of the first post is right in all matters due to the fact that he is the organizer of tournaments, but perhaps some of you guys can just give him a break and cut him some slack. I am sure he do not come in and acted on the sole purpose of making an unfair system for teams to be part off. It is an oversight from his part (mistake?) which he just do not bother to explain or roll over and follow the suggestions of certain individuals who he believes is out to get to him with a burning passion (who would take suggestions from individuals in positions like this anyway? I won’t)

Whether the oversight is intentional or not is not the point here. But punishing him by taking a tourney down (if its intentional then congratulations again) will be the killer blow for the LAN scene. I have always regarded the Singaporean LAN scene as a model of how Dota should grow into and how it should be done across the world. The professionalism shown over the years inspires awe from whoever is smart enough to research it.

What has been presented here for the past few days is a great setback to the term Competitive Dota for sure. Players felt annoyed, Sponsors are afraid to set foot in this already sponsor-starved scene, Fans felt being let down from the “higher ups” and tournament organizers may just feel discouraged to organize any events anymore.

If you think its all gloom and doom, you are wrong ! There are people smiling behind the scenes right now. People who envy your success as a scene, people who cant stand your success and what you have built over the years; the same people who call us dotards; people who are jealous that Dota took up media time and sponsors attention; people who in general hates the game for being as popular as it is because they feel that our scene, our game is inferior compared to theirs; oh and how can I forgot, people who just stopped respecting where true Zenith of Dota comes from (Ehome refers to the Dota world as European Dota, Asian Dota and China’s Dota). They are all too happy to see DotaSg crumble and claim what that its stopping them from doing so all this while.

As an MYM, ADC admin myself, I do admit I made mistakes (tons of them in fact) some publicly , many behind the scenes. If every 1 of my thousands of decisions are made public and scrutinize in this manner that is shown here for the past few days, I would have quit long ago and I can be dead sure that the Asian involvement in the laggy Online Dota Scene would not be as vibrant as it is now and perhaps 2 Asian teams wont dominate ESWC so easily as they did last year.

Professionalism seek here demands certain rewards in return. With a budget that may just give him the chance to break even if it is done properly, I do think the standards set are just too high for anyone who works with pure passion to handle. Perhaps pulling the plug on this site and retire for good is the easy way out?

Good Luck in surviving this crisis! You guys will need tons of them.

[Heaven]

Not that bad, English from a Malaysian :D.

[fAze | KOSH]

Thomas,

we know what kind of guy you are, and what dotasg is. DONT WORRY :D

[DrakaN]

Wo its Underminer.

[dennisu]

+1 for ur article,so realistic and true. Success is not easy to achieve yet it can be destoryed within seconds , how many people even realised that lol. sry for my bad english,but this is my feeling rite now.

[FatE]

that is really a good article,well written taizi,kudos to u.

[Daisuke]

Hmmm.... I am a casual dota player and was never really involved in dotasg community. I only come here on occasions to check out some dota news. From an outsider's point of view, after going through the posts of this saga, I have to say that this cancellation was in very large part the organizer's fault. The adding of the preliminary stage for the last two slots is questionable and I have to agree with what Soloz and others had to say about that. Asking 8 teams to pay the same amount of registration fees to play a knockout round online is unreasonable. The money may be justified for the teams who get to play at Cyberdome if you factor in rental costs and such. However, what did you actually do to deserve $55 from the each of the other 6 teams who plays from home and gets knocked out? Scheduling games? I think not.

From a legal viewpoint, I think this may not bode well for dotasg if complaints were made to authorities, especially if the players are minors. You can be charged for exploitation. I hope you will tread carefully in future papa when you organize events. When things get out of hand, like for example, the press got wind of this, you might be getting legal issues. Also, you claim dotasg is not a not for profit organization, then is dotasg registered as a business under the company act? This again, you must be careful when you cite you do make profits.

I have read that you have a passion for improving the singapore dota scene and quite a few people have spoken up for you on that. I sure hope that you keep this passion and not let commercial viability taint that passion. It will be a shame if that happens.

[xlaomlng]

y still quarrel siaaaa .. winterchill also end le ... chill guys .. i sae sry to everyone .. im so sry cause i dunno how to post a comment =x

[darkrust]

Precisely. We as local singapore gamers, ought to question ourselves how often will dota scene be hosted? With an average of 2-3 events annually, why the whole big round of trouble, only to the disadvantage of the community rather than who's right or wrong issue. Be it questionable on organizing format, purpose, issues, upon decision; we participants only decide take part or not.

Since having flexibility only create doubts targetting actual intend, not even a single gratitude, I guess in future just go by the fixed manner.

So let this be a lesson for all, let it settle down, await future events A.S.A.P hopefully.

[Rukia]

=.=""" y stop winterchill leh...i wan learn dota papa scam money leh xD..i also wan open forum and ban ppl liao...so fun lor.. dotapapi is killing his own throne^^

[YupiGummyBear]

havent been online due to NS for some time. i was quite shocked when i read about what was going on in dotasg and i have some thoughts to share about this incident.

Just a shoutout to DOTASG_PAPA and the people involved in the incident.

I know there have been lots of long posts and this is gonna be another one. But I'll try to keep it as short as I can. If you find it too lengthy still, just read the words in bold as a summary.

The start of the end?

during the earlier days of dotasg, the forum was rather serious and more focused on dota itself. until a time came, when a group of people started spamming threads about someone who played dota for "chicken rice" and nonsensical posts of such. of course, all was in the name of fun (within that group of friends, some even are moderators).

that was when i felt dotasg was going downhill. instead of constructively talking about dota, there were more "chit chat" threads and "nobody can defeat xxxx" spam threads. At this time, DOTASG_PAPA closed one eye and trusted his moderators to run the forum. The group became more and more blatent.

The saga

Though I do not have a full picture of what happened, heres my 2 cents..

1) The offline competition was not very professional, but DOTASG_PAPA did allow teams to pull out of the competition if they did not wish to participate. So I dont see why people should flame him for it. If you feel that it is unfair, just dont join, or give constructive suggestions.

2) Gathering groups of people to revolt against DOTASG_PAPA. In what way do you think that this is being mature?

3) Yes, I heard alot about the mass banning and threads deleting. I believe that by doing so, DOTASG_PAPA is just trying to protect the rights of the management and of course, the reputation of dotasg itself. But I must say it was quite rash to ban so many of them without explanation. Afterall, the admin should handle things professionally so as not to let the gamers out there misunderstand your intentions.

Ease your hatred, look in the mirror

No right or wrong, but just some questions to ask yourself..
Answer frankly.

Did you really think that DOTASG_PAPA was out to scam the money?

Do you think Soloz- was mature in the way he handled his disagreement about the management of the event?

Were you a part of the flaming?

If you were DOTASG_PAPA, would you have banned those people? If not, what better idea do you have to stop the flame in the fastest time?

Ok, at this point of time I think some would say that Im trying to bootlick. Im just talking from a neutral point of view and I have no reason to suck up. Im just supporting the people I respect and staying true to my values.

Easier said than done - Make love not war.

Peace out.

[ruixiang]

"during the earlier days of dotasg, the forum was rather serious and more focused on dota itself. until a time came, when a group of people started spamming threads about someone who played dota for "chicken rice" and nonsensical posts of such. of course, all was in the name of fun (within that group of friends, some even are moderators)."

I disagree with this point. If the forum remained serious, will people become friendly towards each other? They'll prolly just see the forums awhile and then just mia until the next competition comes and they decide to come take some replays. To me, DotA is a game, but forums are places where people speaks about things they like. Yes it might be a forum about DotA. But there is a limit to what one can actually speak about right?

The other points. Totally agreed.

[YupiGummyBear]

having fun is alright.. my point is that there was too much of it at a point of time. and sometimes it gets overboard but the mods just close 1 eye cos they are friends.

not trying to blame anyone. just my observation as a fellow forumer.

[HeRo`]

=.=""" y stop winterchill leh...i wan learn dota papa scam money leh xD..i also wan open forum and ban ppl liao...so fun lor.. dotapapi is killing his own throne^^

You need to grow up, think straight, get your facts right. I am seriously sick and tired of senseless people like you, trying to destroy the peace here.

Since you have already decided to hop onto the other bandwagon, please do not come back here and rant any further, because we have no further need of users like you.

[xVp`smiLe]

dotasg FTW

[FatE]

havent been online due to NS for some time. i was quite shocked when i read about what was going on in dotasg and i have some thoughts to share about this incident.

Just a shoutout to DOTASG_PAPA and the people involved in the incident.

I know there have been lots of long posts and this is gonna be another one. But I'll try to keep it as short as I can. If you find it too lengthy still, just read the words in bold as a summary.

The start of the end?

during the earlier days of dotasg, the forum was rather serious and more focused on dota itself. until a time came, when a group of people started spamming threads about someone who played dota for "chicken rice" and nonsensical posts of such. of course, all was in the name of fun (within that group of friends, some even are moderators).

that was when i felt dotasg was going downhill. instead of constructively talking about dota, there were more "chit chat" threads and "nobody can defeat xxxx" spam threads. At this time, DOTASG_PAPA closed one eye and trusted his moderators to run the forum. The group became more and more blatent.

The saga

Though I do not have a full picture of what happened, heres my 2 cents..

1) The offline competition was not very professional, but DOTASG_PAPA did allow teams to pull out of the competition if they did not wish to participate. So I dont see why people should flame him for it. If you feel that it is unfair, just dont join, or give constructive suggestions.

2) Gathering groups of people to revolt against DOTASG_PAPA. In what way do you think that this is being mature?

3) Yes, I heard alot about the mass banning and threads deleting. I believe that by doing so, DOTASG_PAPA is just trying to protect the rights of the management and of course, the reputation of dotasg itself. But I must say it was quite rash to ban so many of them without explanation. Afterall, the admin should handle things professionally so as not to let the gamers out there misunderstand your intentions.

Ease your hatred, look in the mirror

No right or wrong, but just some questions to ask yourself..
Answer frankly.

Did you really think that DOTASG_PAPA was out to scam the money?

Do you think Soloz- was mature in the way he handled his disagreement about the management of the event?

Were you a part of the flaming?

If you were DOTASG_PAPA, would you have banned those people? If not, what better idea do you have to stop the flame in the fastest time?

Ok, at this point of time I think some would say that Im trying to bootlick. Im just talking from a neutral point of view and I have no reason to suck up. Im just supporting the people I respect and staying true to my values.

Easier said than done - Make love not war.

Peace out.

nice stand,neutral stand.good article there upon how the situation is like now

[beanie-]

wow emo @@

[StripperA]

dotasg FTW

dotasg FTW, =D

[DOTASG_PAPA]

The postponing of the event is not deliberate and is not really a choice of mine or in my control. Looking at the way those who are making the problem for us behave, it's hard to convince sponsor that there will not be mischief from trouble maker during the event. Outside of those that we already know, there are even some of them are in hibernation from within the participants as you see once the event is postpone reveal their true self inside this thread.

You see, DotaSG and our event are created for the people who support us and appreciate what was done and for some competitive ones, it's a place also for them to look forward to a good tournament platform to play with that's why every tournament, much hard work is put in starting from the process of registration. Everything new things are introduce to make the whole thing not only highly competitive but fun. But looked at what happened, they forget about that once they let their rage blinded them or be influenced by their peers.

DotaSG, our events, ProPowerPlay, Power Inhouse are all interlinked. Thus, that also explain why ban will extend all across these. Reason is simple, believe it or not, it's a hope to build a better and more mature Dota community. We have seen irc, bnet and garena where some black sheeps hangs out thus leading to the general Dota population in Singapore think that it's perfectly all right to flame and make trouble, simple to fight fire with fire. Sorry, DotaSG is not like that. If it's not a place without rules and control. Closing my eyes does not means that I am not seeing what is happening.

During this whole incident, I not once need to rallied up any support like the other side. Those with crystal clear eyes can see that they are doing it on their own, and you can see each time they are attacked by those belong to the group from the other side.

Further more, as I have mentioned those guys are continuing to behave badly in their own created forum, blogs and chat room. It does not give anyone confident at all that they will change in a day or two. Links have been posted y others, just go take a look and tell me are these people the ones who are in the right mentality to judge. Are they voicing out for the community or are they wanting to see DotaSG, our community or me destroyed with their personal agenda?

Before postponing, I did my best to find a second venue which come with high charges which could not afford., and alternative I tried to place my participants in another event trying to fight for some benefit for them but was rejected on the ground that they still have long time to go for their registration and asked for the players to join through normal channel. Have I not done my best and tried enough for the community.
Some of you on the other end are trying to solve things so before I get to you on that, you seriously calm down, think about what was done before in the event you were in when you were there. Think about the things provided for in DotaSG. These are all for who? Me, no, it's for you.

Behind a DotaSG there is also it's community here, things you dislike here does not mean that other will feel the same way as you. You are free to come and go here, it's your choice so if you do not like what we do you are free to go.

But if you want to pick a bone here in DotaSG at the expense of our community and us, I will not let it happen. I will stand an fight for every one that are still giving their unwavering or silent support.

Again if you all want to start another round of nonsense of why you need to make money or what. DotaSG is not a non profit entity, never was, never is and never will be. But being a biz does not means that what we did would not be the best of the community. Do you wish for a event that was executed without timely updates with results, photos and replays upload. I think in the fit of the anger you all actually forgot everything little things that are special about DotaSG. For your information these do not come free and falls from the sky.

If you think you can have free lunch or demand to know every single cent is spend? Sorry, DotaSG is not the place. No other place or business in the world will do that if they know what they are doing. I am already one of the nicest to let you all know a little on the surface how it's spend hoping with your maturity you will understand. Apparently, I am wrong about that.

So with these I hope the remaining of you will please be understanding and kindly help work with us to rebuilt what was left after the damage. If you are we DotaSG, DotaSG will be here for you.

[flamezz]

The postponing of the event is not deliberate and is not really a choice of mine or in my control. Looking at the way those who are making the problem for us behave, it's hard to convince sponsor that there will not be mischief from trouble maker during the event. Outside of those that we already know, there are even some of them are in hibernation from within the participants as you see once the event is postpone reveal their true self inside this thread.

You see, DotaSG and our event are created for the people who support us and appreciate what was done and for some competitive ones, it's a place also for them to look forward to a good tournament platform to play with that's why every tournament, much hard work is put in starting from the process of registration. Everything new things are introduce to make the whole thing not only highly competitive but fun. But looked at what happened, they forget about that once they let their rage blinded them or be influenced by their peers.

DotaSG, our events, ProPowerPlay, Power Inhouse are all interlinked. Thus, that also explain why ban will extend all across these. Reason is simple, believe it or not, it's a hope to build a better and more mature Dota community. We have seen irc, bnet and garena where some black sheeps hangs out thus leading to the general Dota population in Singapore think that it's perfectly all right to flame and make trouble, simple to fight fire with fire. Sorry, DotaSG is not like that. If it's not a place without rules and control. Closing my eyes does not means that I am not seeing what is happening.

During this whole incident, I not once need to rallied up any support like the other side. Those with crystal clear eyes can see that they are doing it on their own, and you can see each time they are attacked by those belong to the group from the other side.

Further more, as I have mentioned those guys are continuing to behave badly in their own created forum, blogs and chat room. It does not give anyone confident at all that they will change in a day or two. Links have been posted y others, just go take a look and tell me are these people the ones who are in the right mentality to judge. Are they voicing out for the community or are they wanting to see DotaSG, our community or me destroyed with their personal agenda?

Before postponing, I did my best to find a second venue which come with high charges which could not afford., and alternative I tried to place my participants in another event trying to fight for some benefit for them but was rejected on the ground that they still have long time to go for their registration and asked for the players to join through normal channel. Have I not done my best and tried enough for the community.
Some of you on the other end are trying to solve things so before I get to you on that, you seriously calm down, think about what was done before in the event you were in when you were there. Think about the things provided for in DotaSG. These are all for who? Me, no, it's for you.

Behind a DotaSG there is also it's community here, things you dislike here does not mean that other will feel the same way as you. You are free to come and go here, it's your choice so if you do not like what we do you are free to go.

But if you want to pick a bone here in DotaSG at the expense of our community and us, I will not let it happen. I will stand an fight for every one that are still giving their unwavering or silent support.

Again if you all want to start another round of nonsense of why you need to make money or what. DotaSG is not a non profit entity, never was, never is and never will be. But being a biz does not means that what we did would not be the best of the community. Do you wish for a event that was executed without timely updates with results, photos and replays upload. I think in the fit of the anger you all actually forgot everything little things that are special about DotaSG. For your information these do not come free and falls from the sky.

If you think you can have free lunch or demand to know every single cent is spend? Sorry, DotaSG is not the place. No other place or business in the world will do that if they know what they are doing. I am already one of the nicest to let you all know a little on the surface how it's spend hoping with your maturity you will understand. Apparently, I am wrong about that.

So with these I hope the remaining of you will please be understanding and kindly help work with us to rebuilt what was left after the damage. If you are we DotaSG, DotaSG will be here for you.

papa, i do believe yr point are quite valid, and solo and other already apologise for that, but what about you, you really think that they create trouble just for the fun of it????? it take 2 hand to clap, what the reason you won apologise? because yr god image to us will be downgrade to normal human?maybe u can see from their point of view as well if possible

[YupiGummyBear]

it take 2 hand to clap, what the reason you won apologise? because yr god image to us will be downgrade to normal human?maybe u can see from their point of view as well if possible

chill. maybe we should try to see from papa's point of view too? im sure it doesnt feel good to be blamed and flamed by ppl for something (which i feel) isnt really wrong.

thru these years DOTASG_PAPA has made much contributions to the dota community, but has anyone sincerely thanked him for it? Why is it that people always only see the bad side of human nature?

everyone needs to calm down and stop talking with sarcasm. only then can we really listen to each other and solve this problem.

[dEn]

chill. maybe we should try to see from papa's point of view too? im sure it doesnt feel good to be blamed and flamed by ppl for something (which i feel) isnt really wrong.

thru these years DOTASG_PAPA has made much contributions to the dota community, but has anyone sincerely thanked him for it? Why is it that people always only see the bad side of human nature?

everyone needs to calm down and stop talking with sarcasm. only then can we really listen to each other and solve this problem.

Well, from what I can tell (from the opposition's blog and forums), they have calmed down ALOT.

Guys, pls dont ever go over the boundary of defamation.
dont go down to such a level.
post ur grievousness but not defame someone.

Not to mention, many posts from their blog have been deleted (I assume, due to the defamatory nature of the posts).

Being a good friend of zE aka xsomebodyx, I have plenty of first hand information about what they're doing (no, I am still NOT taking sides), and many of you newcomers out there just don't know what their original intention was. Read: ORIGINAL INTENTION.

Now, here's where the problem lies. All of their posts have been deleted, including the ones by SoloZ which kinda made some sense in one way or another. Like what many other forummers who were watching during the debate, there were many questions left unanswered by Papa (no, I'm not referring to the money/scam issue).

Yes, Papa has the rights not to answer, as this is his website. Therefore, what he says, is what we get. He has the final say, because this is his site.

But ultimately, at the end of the day, when they could not find a compromise, who suffers? IMHO, honestly honestly honestly speaking. No one. So now, big question mark here. Why? Simple. Because Esports is dying. In this recession, it is extremely impractical to live on gaming as a way of life. Even for semi-pro, or even amateur players who whittle away their free time in order to train for competitions, the time and effort spent on gaming will never be enough to compensate for the potential gain in the economy that could have been gained, if said player goes out to find a part-time job or something (I know many army guys who are moonlighting (: ).

Yes, gaming is fun. I love gaming. But in this current peak of recession, the worst since the Great Depression of the 1930s, it is really unfeasible for many of the Esports giants like MYM, SK, fnatic, mouz, WE etc. to have so many players under their wing. Which explains why even the Gods of WC3, Grubby and Moon, are clanless now.

Oh damn, I have totally digressed from my original point. But what the heck, this is a forum, I'm posting my own views. If you agree with me, thanks. If you don't agree, instead of FLAMING, why don't you post your own comments, views and criticisms on this issue? See, if people hadn't resorted to FLAMING, constructive criticism would have helped ALOT in said saga.

Now that it's over and done with, time to go celebrate Valentine's Day.

[DOTASG_PAPA]

papa, i do believe yr point are quite valid, and solo and other already apologise for that, but what about you, you really think that they create trouble just for the fun of it????? it take 2 hand to clap, what the reason you won apologise? because yr god image to us will be downgrade to normal human?maybe u can see from their point of view as well if possible

Apologies need to be sincere. With no string attached, no like "hey I am sorry so how about you"?

That is not a sincere apology at all in my point of view. What is needed is the solutions and actions to help deal with the damaged and show how they are really remorse over what they have done.

Yeah it takes two hand to clap.

But it takes one hand to slap someone in the face.

Well, I did did not clap with them, they clap among themselves.

I extended a helping hand and received a slap.

This is going to go on and on, let me point out again once and for all for those who still are standing on their side.

Take a close look of what they did if their intentions is not of chaos and damage. Then why would someone want to think of way to remove me from my own server, my own website?

You simply do not solve problem with chaos and trouble making. You solve problem with, yes, solutions.

This clearly indicate two things, the mentality level and the intention to cause damage.

I rest my case on this.

[DOTASG_PAPA]

Well, from what I can tell (from the opposition's blog and forums), they have calmed down ALOT.



Not to mention, many posts from their blog have been deleted (I assume, due to the defamatory nature of the posts).

Being a good friend of zE aka xsomebodyx, I have plenty of first hand information about what they're doing (no, I am still NOT taking sides), and many of you newcomers out there just don't know what their original intention was. Read: ORIGINAL INTENTION.

Now, here's where the problem lies. All of their posts have been deleted, including the ones by SoloZ which kinda made some sense in one way or another. Like what many other forummers who were watching during the debate, there were many questions left unanswered by Papa (no, I'm not referring to the money/scam issue).

Yes, Papa has the rights not to answer, as this is his website. Therefore, what he says, is what we get. He has the final say, because this is his site.

But ultimately, at the end of the day, when they could not find a compromise, who suffers? IMHO, honestly honestly honestly speaking. No one. So now, big question mark here. Why? Simple. Because Esports is dying. In this recession, it is extremely impractical to live on gaming as a way of life. Even for semi-pro, or even amateur players who whittle away their free time in order to train for competitions, the time and effort spent on gaming will never be enough to compensate for the potential gain in the economy that could have been gained, if said player goes out to find a part-time job or something (I know many army guys who are moonlighting (: ).

Yes, gaming is fun. I love gaming. But in this current peak of recession, the worst since the Great Depression of the 1930s, it is really unfeasible for many of the Esports giants like MYM, SK, fnatic, mouz, WE etc. to have so many players under their wing. Which explains why even the Gods of WC3, Grubby and Moon, are clanless now.

Oh damn, I have totally digressed from my original point. But what the heck, this is a forum, I'm posting my own views. If you agree with me, thanks. If you don't agree, instead of FLAMING, why don't you post your own comments, views and criticisms on this issue? See, if people hadn't resorted to FLAMING, constructive criticism would have helped ALOT in said saga.

Now that it's over and done with, time to go celebrate Valentine's Day.

Well, placed post.

Yeah, you reminded me, Vday. I wanted to make a banner for it and suppose to take down the new year banner.

Damn myself, because of all these, I forgot about it. Now very important, but it's nice to have right?

Yeah happy Valentine's Day to all!! Make Love not War.

[YupiGummyBear]

happy valentines day (:

[ah_tys]

Apologies need to be sincere. With no string attached, no like "hey I am sorry so how about you"?

That is not a sincere apology at all in my point of view. What is needed is the solutions and actions to help deal with the damaged and show how they are really remorse over what they have done.

Yeah it takes two hand to clap.

But it takes one hand to slap someone in the face.

Well, I did did not clap with them, they clap among themselves.

I extended a helping hand and received a slap.

This is going to go on and on, let me point out again once and for all for those who still are standing on their side.

Take a close look of what they did if their intentions is not of chaos and damage. Then why would someone want to think of way to remove me from my own server, my own website?

You simply do not solve problem with chaos and trouble making. You solve problem with, yes, solutions.

This clearly indicate two things, the mentality level and the intention to cause damage.

I rest my case on this.

i tink tts the most impt thing u wanna say rite....
anw, i tink soloz n pals r serious about the apology n not some "hey I am sorry so how about you"?

[ShiraYuki-]

Well, placed post.

Yeah, you reminded me, Vday. I wanted to make a banner for it and suppose to take down the new year banner.

Damn myself, because of all these, I forgot about it. Now very important, but it's nice to have right?

Yeah happy Valentine's Day to all!! Make Love not War.

Yeah . Babies > Weapons & casualties anytime .

[DOTASG_PAPA]

Yeah . Babies > Weapons & casualties anytime .

Bingo.

One creates life, the other takes life. Thus making babies is more productive definitely.

[moomookau]

Have been a bystander for quite some time. I just would like to point out one thing. Nobody is really questioning whether DotaSG is a profit or non-profit organization. Nobody is also asking for the account books of DotaSG on how exactly money is spent. The question that comes to my mind is the extra 6 x $55 that will be earned by the preliminary round. TS claims that the money will be well spent and justifies it by explaining how some of it will be used. However, we all know that the competition could have proceeded with or without the 6 x $55 from the extra preliminary teams. Therefore, what was the justification of having the 6 teams fork out $55 when all they got was to play an online competition where maphackers, smurfers and custom kickers could spoil everyone's fun. Why did they have to pay $55 to have this mini competition whereas other people just pay $55 and are guaranteed entry to the main event. We also know that with Kingsurf and Sweety inside the preliminaries their chance of even qualifying for the main event is at a minimum.

Conclusion: People are questioning WHY the need for the full cost of $55 for the preliminaries and NOT whether the extra $55 will be put to good use.

[DOTASG_PAPA]

Have been a bystander for quite some time. I just would like to point out one thing. Nobody is really questioning whether DotaSG is a profit or non-profit organization. Nobody is also asking for the account books of DotaSG on how exactly money is spent. The question that comes to my mind is the extra 6 x $55 that will be earned by the preliminary round. TS claims that the money will be well spent and justifies it by explaining how some of it will be used. However, we all know that the competition could have proceeded with or without the 6 x $55 from the extra preliminary teams. Therefore, what was the justification of having the 6 teams fork out $55 when all they got was to play an online competition where maphackers, smurfers and custom kickers could spoil everyone's fun. Why did they have to pay $55 to have this mini competition whereas other people just pay $55 and are guaranteed entry to the main event. We also know that with Kingsurf and Sweety inside the preliminaries their chance of even qualifying for the main event is at a minimum.

Conclusion: People are questioning WHY the need for the full cost of $55 for the preliminaries and NOT whether the extra $55 will be put to good use.

Think I explained before somewhere in the sea of fire (the thread where it all started).

This goes this way, it's a price to pay for so call a special arrangement or second chance whichever way it's call.

Firstly, they actually do not have the chance to play in the main event already. Many of them not interested in side event want to compete with the main event. But the fact is they are already late.

So it came up that the idea of why not two teams who initially secured the slot drop back into waiting list, free up two slot for them to play in a preliminary for it.

Thus, since now with the new chance given, it will be only fair that they pay for it. If not it will not be fair to those who are already in the 30 team who made payment and event not fair to the 2 teams that give up the slot for them. If they are not to make payment or to pay less, I would rather not do it for them.

It's seriously not about the money, and if you still curious then what would be done with the money. You might want to search the forum with the keyword "money" to find your answers.

If you ask if not for the money then why add them in to mess it up, well simply because before when I did not do anything for waiting list teams in previous event they feedback and ask me to do something for them, thinking back I was a little ridgid, so this time the respond is good why not maybe be a little kind and do something for them.

As for the question why a team would do that there are many reasons. No matter confident, generosity or cockiness (just example), I think instead of speculating all of you should give respect to them for it. How many of you would have been able to do that?

Last part on why it's no on lan, cos time is too short to find a lan environment or extra event date to fit them in. These need lead time for venue owner to consider. Also if extra time are given to fit them in, it would disrupt the tournament, as a preliminary has to take place first before the main event can start. The confirmed teams might have something planned according to the original schedule, so if delay it might affect their ability to play which again no fair to them. Thus, online is the next best solution. Smurfer wise, we have out method to prevent it to the minimum. Game hackers/cheaters wise I agree cannot be 100% prevented but since we are going to have in game marshals they will help to spot any attempt to hack or cheat. If still there is suspicion of hacking we will get the pros to help to analysis those after the games too. Again these are explained to the team who have doubt, who again come back to be and say they want to join. But again some of their members backstab us by joining in with those who are already started some accusation and calling us scam or greedy for money. We helped them and they stab us back.

Explaining it over again seems to be like taken a time travel, but since you have asked in a rational manner and hope that those that still have doubt can also see this and have their queries answered.

And for the rest who already have joined the fray earlier, the whole thing is over. Everyone is suffering because of it. DotaSG reputation was damaged, my mod mine was too. And WinterChill was lost. Community also suffer somehow. So is this what you want?

If not and if you want to help and see DotaSG back to it's fun and glorious days again. It to look forward to see what can you do to help fix the damaged done, and how to help move forward.

Again, DotaSG's stand is still the same and firm. What we are doing here is for the best interest of the community, at the same time DotaSG's name, interest and integrity must be protected and upheld. We will not tolerate any troublemaker or those with malice intent. And user who still trying to break forum rules will be dealt with be it you are some pro team or newbie.

Lastly, Make Love Not War. Peace.

[Alphamon]

hmm. nothing i can really say but good luck people =/