PDA

View Full Version : Animation Cancelling Guide


Ironfisto
02-22-2007, 10:09 AM
This guide is going to be quite long as it trys to explain everything on animation cancelling and its related terms. To make it reader friendly, ive organized it in such a way simpler things are explained first.

Before we begin lets have some understanding why animation cancelling is important.

1) What is animation cancelling?
Ans : It is a act of cancelling unneccessary animations to greatly reduce the downtime of your heroes to perform other actions

2) What is its main uses?
Ans : The most notable uses is in chasing. This concept as links very closely to orb walkers also.

3) What are orb walkers?
Ans : They are heroes which have orb-like arrow spell abilies like bone, viper, silencer. These heroes have the option to manual cast and autocast these skills

4) Why should i know all these?
Ans : If you want to be able to deny/lasthit/harrass very well. You will probably do better if you understand these concepts. Denying and lasthitting cannot be trained alone on practice and knowing to attack by gut-feeling.

5) So you mean if i understand this guide fully, i can master denying/lasthitting?
Ans : Yes.


So here goes;

Author: ThugLife
Topic:Mini "What is Attack Cancelling" Guide
Link: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=121696

A LOT of people lately have been learning and hearing about attack cancelling is, which naturally leads to a lot of "what is it" questions. Here's the breakdown:

First, you need to understand the mechanics of attack,

When you run your hero up to an enemy, there will be a slight delay before they do their damage. Of course everyone notices it takes time for a melee hero to throw a punch or swing a sword, or the windup on certain heroes before they fire their projectile (think lina, she has a very long attack animation)

What this 'delay' is referred to in wc mechanics is the Damage Point. It's exactly what it sounds like. On a melee hero, it's how long from the attack's beginning until your attack produces it's damage. On a ranged hero, it's how long it takes the hero to 'wind up' and throw the projectile. Mind you this is when the projectile is launched, not when it hits, so there is obviously more delay on the damage involved as it needs to travel to its target.

So during this time before the damage point (a fraction of a second) your hero has stopped moving, and is performing an animation. If you want the attack to follow through, you naturally have to let your hero go through the motion.

However, every hero also has another animation in it's attack. This is the wind down. During this time, just like the wind up, your hero will stand still and follow through with its attack.

Fortunately, this animation serves absolutely no practical purpose (besides aesthetics) and can be stopped as simply as commanding your hero to move during it

And for the still confused, here's a frame by frame of how to do it.

Suppose you're lina, you ult your enemy, but he lives with marginal hitpoints. You have no mana left, and you know he's faster than you. Unfortunately it looks like it'll take 2 hits to bring him down and hes getting away

If you simply click on him, you'll throw a projectile, he'll likely get out of your range for the next one, get away fine, and you'll rage quit (joke)

However using attack cancelling you can get the edge you need to get more hits in on a fleeing enemy

Heres two numbers that are going to be important in explaining what you're doing

Lina's Attack Point : .75
Lina's Backswing: .78

Lina takes .75 seconds from the beginning of an attack until she fires her projectile. She then spends .78 seconds winding down her attack. This is what we're eliminating.

First step, you click your enemy, and begin your attack. You're forced to deal with the .75 second delay because you need the attack to succeed.

.75 seconds elapse, and you fire your attack. Now if you continue to do nothing, Lina will remain in place for an additional .78 seconds as she winds down her attack (i.e. wasting your goddamn time)

But thats .78 seconds during which your enemy is getting away from you. What your job to do is cut that time down. The second you see your projectile launch is the second your hero starts wasting time.

So naturally, to attack cancel, the moment you see your projectile fire, you manually get closer to that enemy hero. (assuming you're pursuing someone) Lina will stop winding down, and follow your command. Now when it comes time to fire your second attack, you're actually in position for it, so you dont have to waste precious time chasing for it.

Using this technique, you'll be able to hawk fleeing enemies down with much greater efficiency than by auto-attacking.

This takes time to practice, as your window for opportunity is fractions of a second. The best time to do it IS as soon as your projectile comes out, but don't be overzealous and cancel before you attack. It's better to err late if you must. Naturally the occasional lag will be your enemy once you've started getting used to it, but you'll get over it.

Ironfisto
02-22-2007, 10:12 AM
This next article explains the other various definitions synonymous to animation cancelling, ie cast pt/attack pt and cast/attack backswing.


Author: Ironfisto
Topic: PotM Animations and stuff
Link: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=121054


On the part, whether manual casting Viper is based on cast or attack point, wouldnt it be using cast point?
Anyway the cast pt is 0.30 while attack point is 0.33, so there isnt much difference. Comparing with silencer, with 0.3 cast pt vs 0.5 attack pt, there could be some visual difference.
Im basing this on the assumption that obsidian orb when cast manually has 40% chance to proc his aura compared to 20% when autocasted. So could there be possibilty that this effect has its code build upon cast pt and attack pt. Its quite logical to code it that way.
So manual casting orbs will be based on Cast point right??

http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=96824

Errm, based on the attack pt/cast pt table in the guide list, i think its still quite confusing. Could there possibly be an update on that, adding all the new heroes in to the list. Also, a complete explanation on what each of the term do. Theres sooo many conflicting opinions there.

Just to clarify, my understanding on them is as such (correct me if im wrong)

Assumptions :
1) The hero is a range hero
2) You are playing a in perfectly lag free environment (NO delay)
3) You are using a computer program to execute your attacks/spells functions. (This is to eliminate human delays, eg reaction time, time to click your mouse, time to hit your keyboard)

Cast pt -
The amount of time required (eg for the CM to swing his wand) before the spell is casted. If any commands is given before the time lapse, the spell is disrupted. (but you dont lose mana, and spell cd)
Eg. You can do fake teleport with furion if you are fast enough. He will do his tp animation but will not tp.

In additon, if wondering for heroes with 0.00 cast pt, eg tiny and dragon knight. When played in wtf mode, assuming that the cooldown is instantaneous, will the tiny and DK be able to spam his spells with an infinite rate???
(in this case, the only delay not permitting you to achieve that is the of you hitting the keyboard keys and clicking)

Cast backswing -
The amount of time of miscellaneous animation after the spell has been casted. The animation can be cancelled, commonly termed as animation cancelling. But question here, does animation cancelling reduces the backswing completely to 0.00?
If that holds true, then if the hero has 0.50 castpt, theoretically, he can cast two spells succesively in 1.00 sec?


Attack pt (also called Damage pt?) -
Exactly the same as cast point, except that now you are attacking.

Given two extremities, eg 0.26 (lycan in wolf form) and 0.75 (Lina), you can see this effect clearly when you chase down a hero. For lycan (if you have life steal effects), while chasing, you can see him putting in alot of of hits as and when he barely touches the enemy (and you see the crescent lifesteal effect). Compared to lina, even if you have faster speed than your enemy, right clicking on the enemy while chasing is unreliable. More often than not, you see her waving her hands but nothing comes out. That delay is the attack pt delay and it is cancelled when the target moves out of the 600 range.

Attack backswing (also called Damge backswing?)-
Again, the same as cast backswing.

Additional comments :
1) Ive tested on dragon knight with 400% ias (Maxed) trying to hit creeps in dragon form. His attack point is 0.94 (MOST ridiculous). If i remember correctly is base attack speed is 1.7, so 400% relates to 0.425s per attack. Assuming he is attacking the granite golem (the strong one), you can roughly see him spurting his fire at a constant rate after some time. Once the golem is dead, he will target the next golem. Here you can see a slight delay (0.94) during the change in target. Then back to his constant firing rate on the next golem.

On a side note : Is there another kind of delay in this scenario? maybe target aqquisition delay?


2) Possible formula ; imagine you are walking towards a creep and start attacking it. Once within range, you start attacking.
1st attack - shoots after your cast pt delay
2nd att - shoots after your attack rate delay (Base attack rate and IAS)
3rd att - still follows the same rule as 2nd shot
After the 3rd shot, the creep is dead. You aim the next target
4th att - shoots after your attack rate delay + your cast pt delay.
5th att - same as 2nd shot formula


To sum it all, (based on my undestanding)
- low attack point is great for harrasing (esp range hero)
- low attack point is great for chasing (eg lycan, potm for range)
- if you have high damage output, eg SF with Rapier, a 400% speed is not effective cos the attack point delay will be higher than your attack rate. (creeps die in 1-2 hits, and you change target frequently)
- low cast point makes 'spell chaining' more effective. (Lion has 0.30, Lina 0.50. Lion is better at dishing our his combo)

Thats what i can think of for now.

-------------------------------
A table consisting of all the heroes cast/attack point and cast/attack backswing can be found here -
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=96824
(Refer to post #10)

Ironfisto
02-22-2007, 10:12 AM
Now, having understand what cast/attack pt/backswing is, i will give an example of how Orb-walking works with explanation.

Author: Ironfisto
Topic: Attack-animation cancelling ^_^V
Link: http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=121520

The idea of bone chasing and animation cancelling is a little advance to understand.
Ill try to simplify it :

Bone is chasing Naix. Bone has higher ms 400, compared to naix 350. The difference is very small. More often than not, you will not be able to kill him. With animation cancelling, this is what you will be doing ;

- Chase the naix till you are below 600 range, preferbly 500 range.
- Right click naix, or just press 'Attack Ground' if you are chasing in the forest.
- Once your arrow is realeased, immediately right click on the ground ahead of you to continue moving.
Repeat step 1-3 again till he dies.

Note that you shouldnt try to land 2 hits, this is what will happen if you try ;

- When you right click or 'attack ground' the naix. You release 1 arrow. But you did not right click the ground ahead of you
- Therefore the bone will continue to release his second shot. However, during the span of time, the naix runs out of range. The Bone will look as if he is about to release his 2nd arrow but stopped suddenly.
- FAILED. You fail to release your second shot, and Naix is far ahead of you now. (You have to stand still when firing a shot)

The reson why you couldnt release the 2nd shot is because of Attack Point
Attack point (given in sec, between 0.17 - 0.94 sec) is the amount of time for the hero to execute his attack. Like animation cancelling, you can cancel an attack also. In this case, the attack is cancelled because Naix is out of range.

--------------------------------

End Note : For further reading, use the link for the respective topics.

Ironfisto
02-22-2007, 10:28 AM
filler post

Kelvinklein
02-22-2007, 07:33 PM
wow...thnx...hvnt been playin dota...but definitely wud b trying dis out when playin...hahah...
sounds realli effective...but it applies mainly 4 dos wif slow att spd rite???

StripperA
03-15-2007, 02:13 AM
Old thread but I think too much calculations. But I get the main idea of animation cancelling, thanks prof ironfisto

benfwL
03-16-2007, 03:01 AM
wow @_@. back to the topic, the advantages of orb walking are
1: maximise the possible number of attacks dealt to one target by manually controlling the hero(not to let its filler animation impede the next hit it can do)
2: minimalise physical damage dealt to you by creeps and towers, if you are chasing pass to get a kill
3: if the orb has a slow effect, you are relatively walking faster than your target, which brings us back to point 1 again
4: not to mention orb walking makes you micro harder and be more aware of what your hero is capable of; also a plus when doing harass/retreat

then again all heroes can "orbwalk" , it is just a matter of how effective and how obvious it looks.

you could show a short replay as a sample demonstration to padawan orb walkers =oD

StripperA
03-16-2007, 01:58 PM
orb walking with viper makes me horny..

StripperY
03-16-2007, 02:26 PM
orb walking with viper makes me horny..
orb walking with enchatress makes you more horny?

StripperA
03-16-2007, 02:28 PM
no, cuz it doesnt slow the guy. viper is uber horny..

StripperY
03-16-2007, 02:29 PM
no, cuz it doesnt slow the guy. viper is uber horny..
try orb walking with a veno, he looks like a **** shoots green coloured semen and purplish sperm

StripperA
03-16-2007, 02:30 PM
it's green la, viper more aggressive. Cuz his flying and hovering over the enemy..scary sia. Imagine got this bird stalking u..

CrimsonBlack
03-16-2007, 09:36 PM
Visage also can lea...Visage and viper stalk tiny together...suddenly tiny avalaunch and toss then kill 2 birds with one stone...

StripperA
03-17-2007, 10:47 AM
add thd in and you got 3 birds..

Reya
03-17-2007, 04:25 PM
thd is dragon.. is add crow.. =x

StripperA
03-17-2007, 08:02 PM
dragon like bird liddat..yeah crow~

Ironfisto
03-17-2007, 09:17 PM
stop...Zzz

StripperA
03-17-2007, 09:31 PM
alright boss.

d0minic
03-17-2007, 09:34 PM
why animation cancelling become birds.

StripperA
03-18-2007, 11:55 AM
talking bout viper orb walk, then suddenly become birds..more birds= more luck

Deadpeng
06-16-2008, 06:03 PM
Thanks for the useful guide.
However, may i know if foreswing and backswing time reduces as your agility increases? Does it mean that animation cancel is not advisable lategame?

FatE
07-18-2008, 11:53 PM
whos stripperY?